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Northern Ireland 2125?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,265 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yes, I thanked his post a while ago. Accept that, I just wanted to know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,220 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    In your defense, I don't think asking for a data source for a random picture off Twitter is an unreasonable request, nor is it evidence you're, 'upset' by the contents of said image as suggested.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Eh? 84% of the UVFs victims were civilians, and somehow they were involved in "war/combat". Do explain….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I am not aware of giving any commentary on it or including or skipping anything. I simply quoted an international Facebook post that popped up. I didn’t even think it was quite as positive as francie has identified.
    it’s just how the residents of OWC feel - nothing more nothing less. Onwards and upwards



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,265 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The UVF declared war in writing but weren't in one because it suits somebody's slanted view of the history on boards.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sorry, but I don't have a clue what your point is here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,220 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    The point is that Twitter/X isn't a particularly reliable or useful source and it isn't much use providing a link to random social media accounts when asked where data comes from, Downcow.

    You did, however provide commentary in several of your comments; for example you said, 'You are now down to 30% who believe that their identity is anything to do with Ireland', ignoring that that percentage is up, ignoring the fact that describing, 'Northern Irish' as nothing to do with Ireland is patently ridiculous and that the percentage who believe that their identity is anything to do with British is actually the one that is down.

    I don't want to get into another pointless back and forth with you though, the purpose of my post was to provide an actual useful source of data for your claim. You're welcome.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I appreciate that you are presenting a reasonable Republican perspective. 

    I stand corrected if those who described themselves as Irish previously, was even lower than 30% – I find that incredible as well.  We seem to be fed a daily diet that Northern Ireland is being overwhelmed by feelings of Irishness.  But if 30% is an improvement then my goodness it’s a dire situation for the old romantic Republicans. 

    And i understand your perspective on what Northern Ireland means, but I am deeply northern Irish and I do not feel in this slightest Irish - my father even came from the free state and I couldn’t imagine him describing himself as Irish either – he appeared glad to escape it. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,220 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    You make the mistake of assuming that your perspective and experience is the only one, Downcow. I do know plenty of people with your perspective, I know plenty of the opposite persuasion.....your father's is pretty bizarre to be honest, he can hardly describe himself as much else being from Donegal if I recall correctly, but I wouldn't argue the point with him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,975 ✭✭✭csirl


    I dont think this is true.

    All christian religions in Ireland have seen a big decline over the past few decades. It is not the case that protestants were forced out or converted. The decline is because trends have changed. You'll find that the same people are still.there, just that their lifestyles have moved with the times. The absence of sectarianism also meams people are less likely to describe themselves in terms of their families religious histiory. May surprise some of our northern friends, but most people doen here have no idea what religious background their friends, neighbours or work colleagues come from. It simply isnt a thing here. People are simply people.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    When anyone got a punishment and got to hospital then the hospital had to notify the police-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    You obviously do not know what Ireland was like a few generations ago, and you do not know why the protestant % of the population declined so much in the 26 counties. The catholic % of the population increased in the 6 counties. Even in more recent times, Graham Norton explained it well. He was asked was it difficult growing up as a gay person when he was young in Ireland, he replied it was not as difficult as being a Protestant in Ireland then.

    Quote: Graham Norton's experiences growing up Protestant in Catholic Ireland were marked by feelings of isolation and not quite belonging, as he and his family were a minority in a predominantly Catholic country. He recalled being left friendless and lonely due to his religion, and it took him a long time to fully "own" his Irish identity because of the implicit association of being Irish with being Catholic. 

    I remember during the h block hunger strikes Protestant properties being attacked, people being called west brits to their faces and "Brits out" etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    "So essence 70% said they dont have an irish bone"

    Anndby that 81% in NI said they dont have Northern Irish bone either and 70% said they dont have a British bone.

    Btw who is the NATIONAL patron saint of NI. Yeah it is Patrick along with all of Ireland.

    What i find interesting is how do you accept Patrick as your nations patron saint but then claim you're not irish. Even saint Patricks cross is superimposed into the UJ to represent the irish being in the union.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    This is the same old Republican arrogance. 

    You say it is bizarre for my father to describe himself as British after living for 60 years in the UK, yet I imagine you do not regard it as bizarre when people live in this region of the UK and referred to themselves as Irish.  

    Maybe you could explain why you would regard it as bizarre for someone who lived 60 years in the UK, held a British passport, etc, to describe themselves as British

    You’re also suggesting that I think everyone has the same perspective as me, when I just posted a graphic demonstrating the opposite i.e. that there are many perspectives in Northern Ireland.  



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    ..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,220 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    I dont think it's the slightest bit strange that he considers himself British, I find it strange that he doesn't consider himself Irish.

    I know a couple from India who have been here for decades, they've built their lives here, raised their families here and obtained Irish citizenship. I don't find it remotely strange that they describe themselves as Irish now.....but I'd find it pretty weird if they said they weren't Indian all the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,220 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    While I don't agree entirely with Blanch's attribution of the decline of Protestantism to them being forced out (though undoubtedly some were in the immediate aftermath of independence), I think you've got an awful pair of rose tinted glasses on yourself.

    I've lost count of the number of times people have assumed and/or outright asked me if I'm a Protestant because I'm from the North. This hasn't just been instances of lads down the pub, it has included very senior people in very professional workplaces who should know better than to ask! To be clear, it has very rarely come from a place of malice or hostility, but you're showing a great deal of naivety in saying it simply isn't a thing here. It isn't a thing for the majority of people here because broadly speaking, they'll make an assumption about a white Irish person rather than ask.

    It has never come with the implicit threat that the question can come with back in the North, but let's not overegg the pudding with the pretend utopia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    so would you find it strange if eg Gerry Adams didn’t say he was British?
    I am just encouraging you to remove the blind spot that wants me to be Irish but doesn’t want someone who has lived their entire life in the in to be British



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    that’s a very fair post - if just a tiny bit naive.
    threat or no threat will depend on the circumstances not the country.
    often in ni it can be asked as a threat, but more often it is being asked to make a connection - in the same way I have been asked in catholic areas about ‘football’ (Gaelic), more often that is about someone wanting to make a connection, yet I might as well be asked am I a catholic.
    I guess the same applies in Ireland



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,265 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Interesting that the census question in the north has to be about 'identity' while in the south no such distinction has to be made, it's a straight 'what is your nationality' question. No multiple choice necessary either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    Your father has a British AND ( Northern ) Ireland passport-

    The British are British- no argument-

    But your father is a AND-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,220 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    There is no naivety, Downcow; I was speaking of my own specific circumstances and experiences, not suggesting that it couldn't possibly come with an implicit threat this side of the border. I'd imagine if you were in the sort of establishment that the barstool Republican types frequent for example, it could come with an implicit threat. I was stating that in my own personal experience it never has.....and I wouldn't recommend you visit those places anyway for a myriad of reasons aside from your Protestant background.

    If you're suggesting that asking if someone is Catholic or Protestant comes with an implicit threat just as often on this side of the border as back home, I'd say you're either seriously misinformed or intentionally being dishonest.

    I would say the same for the rest of the UK, so this isn't to paint the rest of Ireland as a utopia, but to point out that this still is a more serious issue in the North than elsewhere (for obvious reasons).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    .

    Norton grew up Gay in Ireland decades ago which was a whole different animal those generations ago-

    A lonely young man because he was gay- that's a story about all of them years back the world over no matter what religion they were-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,220 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    I find it pretty strange when those of us of a Nationalist persuasion won't say they're from NI, aye. Given the GFA which I signed up to, I recognise that people from NI can be British OR Irish OR both, and I respect their choices as such.

    You keep insisting that I've made any point whatsoever about your father calling himself British, when I clearly haven't. I've stated on both occasions that I fully accept that your father is British; given that he has a British passport, of course he is. I don't find that even slightly strange, it is the bit where he doesn't also recognise that he is obviously Irish too by merit of birth.

    Like I said, I've no issue whatsoever with acknowledging my friends born in India as Irish.....I'd find it pretty weird if they didn't think of themselves as Indian also.

    Identity isn't a black and white thing, your father being Irish (and he is, whether he calls himself such or not) doesn't dilute his Britishness. You seem to be treating it as a zero sum game where acknowledging his obvious Irishness by merit of birth somehow lessens his Britishness....thats a you problem. I don't consider my friends from India as some lesser form of Irish because they are also Indian. You clearly think that being Irish would make your father some lesser kind of British.

    Edit: and for the record, I do not want you to be Irish; I've repeatedly engaged in arguments in your favour on here defending your right to identify how you choose when others have insisted you are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,265 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It's interesting to hear Norton on modern Ireland. We really have come a long long way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,765 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Which is why it was not unknown for some Republicans who got injured in N.I. to come back across the border to get medical treatment here south of the border if medical treatment necessary.;)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    Yes- and the doctors had to ring the Guards if that happened-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    Its officially called a British AND ( Northern ) Ireland Passport- not AND Northern British-

    But ( Northern ) Ireland-

    Even the brits see the protestant are from Ireland-



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,220 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    I'll stick with what I voted for and was agreed by both governments in the Good Friday Agreement, Michael.

    British or Irish or both.



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