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Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,008 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,972 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    That is your weekend sorted then googling 11 year old children.

    For people less transphobic this is a fair and balanced opinion on this "hot" topic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,008 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    I think you'll find your friend John Oliver has been sacked and is toast, and as regards the GAA Ladies "Chaos" match, nothing on RTE or elsewhere as far as I can see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,767 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,750 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    That whole piece by John Oliver was embarrassing.

    He tried to come off all clever and yet ended up making himself look like an idiot.

    Males in Female sport is a form of cheating , simple as that and there can be no other interpretation of it.

    If a boy played in a girls match in Cavan then the parents of the child are to blame for enabling such nonsense when they should have sat their child down and told him regardless of what you think you are, in reality you're boy so cannot play girls sport.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,044 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Stephen Colbert was sacked, not john Oliver. Can't imagine Oliver will be much further behind though tbh. Haven't they got the memo that most people, as in the vast majority, dont agree with males in womens sports, and they are over the whole scolding/lecturing format of 'comedy' on this and other issues?

    I used to really like john oliver and would watch every week. Tuned out when he became an insufferable scold. People watch late night shows to get away from politics or at least have a couple of laughs at everyones expense, not to be lectured.

    If they listened to people outside of their bubble then they might realise where the wind is blowing, but they won't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Yes, exactly that: for years I was a big fan of many of those late night type presenters: Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Trevor Noah etc, but they've nearly all got so relentlessly "woke"/PC that they're just not funny any more. Although I suppose they always were PC and I still found them funny, so maybe it's because they've just run out of jokes. But I do think there's a tendency

    John Oliver's misogynistic tirade was extra special though: full of misrepresentations and downright inaccuracies - all, of course, in the service of "proving" that women who don't want to compete against poor oppressed trans identifying males are just big old meanies. Rights-hoarding dinosaurs, as David Lammy called us. Women, for men like David Lammy and John Oliver, have no separate existence other than to validate male fantasies.

    So he tried to cast doubt on the data. I don't know if he knew he was lying, or if his researchers misled him.

    But both WOLF (a feminist group) and Reem Absalem, UN rapporter on VAWG, have pointed out multiple flaws in that clip.

    Here's some of the email from WoLF to the fact checker for the Jon Oliver show.

    (Incidentally, it was because of this media request that it was discovered that D (Dee) Brent is a male researcher who claims to be a woman. Brent is one of the ‘fact checkers’ for John Oliver.)

    https://womensliberationfront.org/news/last-week-tonight-contacts-wolf-seeking-comment-on-womens-sports
    https://archive.is/xfEqu

    The requirement to accommodate 'trans inclusion' in sports is only being forced on one sex: women. Why is that? Why don't we see FIFA Men's World Cup teams flooded with women identifying as men, demanding to get on the pitch? Where are all the former female athletes, now 'transgender', in the NFL, AFL, Canadian hockey leagues, US basketball leagues, and heavyweight boxing championships? No women are walking off the field with men's medals. It's only men taking medals from women. We'd love to understand the mental pretzel people are operating within where they don't see this as sexist oppression. There is an absolute conflict with women's sex-based rights when gender ideology vaults 'transgender' as a new and supreme protected class over women and girls. Radical feminists always have known this was a problem and we've been pushing back for ages.

    The framing of your questions indicates you seek to discredit SheWon.org because volunteers put it together. You question its accuracy and some of the ways it calculates the loss to women and girls. But you missed that sports authorities and organizations like the NCAA and IOC aren't compiling that data, as they've obliterated sex with gender identity. There is an implied sense of outrage in your questions - how dare women keep track of stolen sports titles!

    That smacks of Progressive Misogyny.

    You questioned why stats are being compiled on more than one medal lost when a male wins a women's competition. There's a ripple effect from introducing an element (men) to women's sports competition that should never have been there:

    The female that would have been the winner, if not for a male competing, is now knocked into second place.

    That knocks the second place female winner into third place.

    Which then knocks the third place female athlete off the podium completely.

    Plus the woman or girl who never got to compete at all, and the ones who choose not to for their own safety or dignity! When you think about the girls who never competed because of this newly erected barrier of having to face males in competition as a female, just counting lost titles actually UNDER counts the number of impacted female athletes.

    There are so few opportunities for female sports scholarships and monetary prizes that this male colonization of the tiny bit of terrain female sports occupies is particularly cruel. This is happening globally.

    Progressive misogyny is misogyny, and as feminists, we reject it every bit as much as we reject restrictions on our reproductive rights, commercial sexual exploitation of women by men, and male violence against women.

    Men have learned that they can enter women's sports by just saying they are women now. Some men game that. Other men try to expose the fallacy of 'inclusivity' in women's sports.

    Humans can't change sex, but will absolutely game a system that seems tailor-made for them to do so. Southpark aptly illustrated how men will enter and dominate women's sports by saying they're now women in the "Go Strong Woman, Go" episode in 2019.

    Men who know inclusion of males in women's sports under the banner of trans is a farce are trying to show the world just how idiotic forced 'inclusion' is. In 2023, male powerlifting coach Avi Silverberg entered the female competition to openly mock Canada's policy of letting any men who identify as a woman into women's sports. He was allowed to compete, and of course he dominated. He then gave numerous interviews to media precisely to expose how wrong it is to let men like him compete against women.

    We play sports with our bodies, not our identities. We hosted a great speaker in October, Dr. Greg Brown, a sports medicine specialist at the University of Nebraska. His talk was "Males and female's bodies are different, and that matters in sports." You can see it here:
    His research showed that even after taking opposite-sex hormones, trans-identifying males still outperformed top female athletes.

    Summing up, there is just no fairness possible when males are allowed to compete with women in women's sports categories.

    What about other categories besides sports on shewon.org?
    Title IX in the USA was passed to give girls a chance to play sports. Before it passed, girls had no places to practice and compete. They had to wait until boys weren't using those spaces. Girls wore the hand-me-down jerseys of boy teams. Title IX made sports possible for girls. All kinds of activities for women and girls to enjoy and compete in have sprung up since then. The gain here in providing opportunities for women and girls being able to participate and achieve in all aspects of public life cannot be underestimated. This righted centuries of exclusion of women and girls. It's unbelievably ironic that males now seek to colonize all things female, and any objection by women is met with threats, silencing, and ostracization, mostly by men, which serves to exclude women and girls from public participation. To us, this is absolutely oppression of females, erupting in new form.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,127 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It is not fair and balanced because he basically suggests there is no question at play except plain discrimination. He utterly refuses to acknowledge the trade-offs that exist and instead takes the angle that there is no inherent advantage for transwomen which is fundamentally wrong.

    It is a disappointingly cowardly approach to the topic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    I mean, it's not even pretending to be "balanced" - it's very clearly, and openly, taking one side and "proving", to Oliver's satisfaction, that there's no reason to consider that there might even be a different take on the issue that is not just bigotry.

    It's interesting that this entirely one-sided statement is presented as "balanced" by the poster. Surely even those who agree with John Oliver can tell that he doesn't apparently see any need to be balanced here?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭BP_RS3813


    John Oliver is a twat when it comes to a subject of that matter. Economics/treatment of individuals in jail in the US? Tends to be right but f*ck me that was a tough piece to watch. Wanted to box the head of him.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,641 ✭✭✭Bogey Lowenstein
    That must be Nigel with the brie...


    Jon Stewart will be next on the chopping block, and good riddance. Did you see the F**k You song he did with the gospel choir? What an absolute ninny. 🙈

    I saw a great comment about it: 'Imagine going back in time to the golden age of late night shows like Johnny Carson, showing this clip to his audience and telling them this is what prime-time TV will be like in 2025'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    It's been such a disappointment to me to discover how many high profile leftwing men are every bit as misogynistic as anything the right can offer. John Oliver being just one such.

    Personally, the scales finally fell from my eyes in 2017 over Louis CK, someone I had previously greatly admired. And when he made his comeback in 2023 / 2024, and so many people were still willing to fawn over him, it was obvious that they didn't care that he abused women, as long as he was on "their side" politically.

    Then I understood that Roman Polanski or Jack Nicholson were not just anomalies. I'm not usually a fan of "both sides-ism", but misogyny and male violence really are found on both/all sides of the political spectrum. That led on to my realising that there are good men on the right, as well as bad men on the left. It may seem unbelievably stupid of me to have taken so long to really "get" that, but there's a widespread (leftwing) narrative that says that all misogyny is on the right, almost by definition. I guess I bought into it myself, for a long time.

    I still consider myself mainly left wing, but a lot more critically than I used to be. I no longer assume that the left is automatically the side that supports women's rights, still less that a man on the political left does so. And I will always be on the side that, IMO, supports women's rights. Whatever side that is.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,127 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I suppose to be fair, he never really tries to be balanced per se- moreso he tries to bring receipts to prove his point. And I generally agree with him and I find him reasonably persuasive. And they clearly have a good research team.

    But unfortunately my trust in most of his stories gets undermined when discussing this topic he is referencing clearly questionable studies, ignoring the significant quantity of evidence against his point and denying basic facts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Wemmick


    Agree.

    I've no political home anymore. Grew up with a strong sense of justice, fairness and equality for all. Still have that. It once belonged on the left, not any longer. The left are blinded by their own bias and the right often contain full-on nutters. The centre that used to have the pragmatic balance doesn’t exist anymore as far as I can see.

    Why people can’t see this as purely a fight for women’s rights is truly beyond me. But every so often (on these threads and SM) you get a drive by poster throwing out thin accusations of transphobia, the insulting one-liners with no foundation, no logic and no solid argument.

    Trans folks have the same rights as everyone else, but they can not bully, shame, insult or threaten women and girls into given up their hard earned rights. It isn’t happening. Some celebs and comedians have followed suit and turned on women and it’s incredulous to watch how blind they are to the stupidity of their talk. No escaping the intensity of their misogyny.

    ”I hate who steals my solitude without, in exchange, offering true company.” - F. Nietzsche



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    An article from RTE (surprisingly!)…

    Seb Coe and World Athletics are making a big difference here. They'll work through the "bugs" and issues, and other sports will have a proven pathway to follow.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,603 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    The last paragraph is a bit cheap. The previous chromosome testing had problems but this new testing protocol has those problems in mind and as the author himself wrote

    "Those without the gene will be deemed "biologically female" and allowed to compete, while those with the gene deemed "biologically male" and barred from competing in the female category until further examination."

    So the test isn't a stand alone test and if a person fails it there are other steps available to prove their eligibility.

    The author could have explained the DSD that Semanya has means that she has male chromosomes, internal testicles, and a male level of testosterone which would have cleared up why her competing in the women's category is so controversial.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,127 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    This is a deliberate obfuscation that many others have used. It is a first level screening test. Those who fail can be re-tested or go through other more in depth tests to get to the bottom of their exact condition.

    The last paragraph is cheap, though standard enough fare I guess. The first step is acknowledging the problem exists which is where the vast majority of those opposed fall down. Beyond that it is always about doing the best you can and striving to do better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 895 ✭✭✭maik3n


    So there's a bit of a fly in the ointment now.
    Male Cheerleaders…..… but they're cis men not trans, in womens sports?

    I'm showing my age here but we had male cheerleaders in the ''Bring it on movies'' many years ago.
    I just figured they were always a thing or was that just Hollywood fantasy?

    On a lighter note, can we officially consider Riley Gaines a grifter now.
    She is literally flogging horse paste to parents ahead of the new school term

    ukduwfb44ojf1.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,641 ✭✭✭Bogey Lowenstein
    That must be Nigel with the brie...


    George W Bush was a male cheerleader in college. That is how long they have been around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,044 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    They are a thing in college cheerleading because they are needed for lifting etc. Traditionally, they havent been prominent in the nfl which is basically just dancing. Seems to be the manly nfl fans who are offended by it because they like ogling cheerleaders lol and it has nothing to do with the issue of men in womens sports really. I think its a good thing that he is defying gender stereotypes without claiming to literally be a woman honestly.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,830 ✭✭✭plodder


    On a lighter note, can we officially consider Riley Gaines a grifter now.
    She is literally flogging horse paste to parents ahead of the new school term

    You can. Nobody is right about everything and she's definitely wrong about that.

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,767 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Wemmick


    A fly in the ointment, eh? An imaginary one that’s been whipped up into a drama.

    Those guys are having a great time participating, brilliant at dancing and doing a fabulous job of it. Fair play.

    ”I hate who steals my solitude without, in exchange, offering true company.” - F. Nietzsche



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    This kind of non-event illustrates that there’s significant common ground between conservatives like Matt Walsh who describes himself as a theocratic fascist, and trans activists.

    Both are about reductive stereotyping. Let him dance however he likes. Why should cheerleading be all women anyway? (Apart from objectifying women for men to ogle that is)

    Believing that mammals can’t change sex is not a right wing opinion. And that’s just about the only thing I have in common with Matt Walsh. It’s much like saying we both believe the earth is round.

    Post edited by volchitsa on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,750 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Not in the sense of these Cheerleaders.

    The male cheerleaders were used for lifting up the women and throwing them up in the air for their stunts, you see them on the sidelines of most college games. They're needed because women aren't strong enough to this this sort of thing.

    These male cheerleaders are just doing exactly what the women are doing , prancing around waving pom poms, they look like idiots in my opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,830 ✭✭✭plodder


    And maybe Riley Gaines pimping Ivermectin is another of those things. Lots of people on her "side" calling her out on it.

    Or even Donald Trump's executive order on gender. Trump certainly didn't write it. He probably didn't even read it. Rumour has it, that it was written by MIT Philosopher Alex Byrne (husband of biologist Carole Hooven). One can acknowledge Trump for passing it, regardless of how much he really cares about it personally, or what we think of his other policies.

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,333 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Depends on who you ask. The IOC recognises cheerleading as a sport; the NCCA, and the Federal Government, does not, with the added curiosity that Title IX would prevent it from being recognised as a sport.

    https://www.thesetonian.com/article/2024/12/cheerleading-and-olympic-recognition

    https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8245864/appeals-court-affirms-cheerleading-not-sport-title-ix



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,044 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Cheerleading in the nfl bears little resemblance to competitive cheerleading. The latter is a sport, the former is choreographed dancing for entertainment at football games. In either case, its not a 'womens sport', men are needed due to their biological advantage meaning they can throw people in the air and such.

    There's no reason why a man cant be on an nfl cheerleading team either other than some football fans are bothered about it being "gay" and its killing their boners.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,008 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    "There's no reason why a man cant be on an nfl cheerleading team either other than some football fans are bothered about it being "gay" and its killing their boners."

    … that is funny 🤣



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    I don’t get the point of it either, for males or females - but hey who cares? It’s not nearly as offensive to me as another American tradition, those beauty contests for little girls. Now that is problematic, to my mind.

    The comparison occurs to me because back when people were raving over little boys in drag (Desmond is Amazing was a famous example) many US posters on Twitter used to argue that it was the same as little girls wearing makeup for a beauty contest and that ”nobody objects to that” - umm 🤔 well I do!



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