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Build first, ask later.

Comments

  • #2
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058331806/build-first-ask-later

    No has happened for years. I can't find the information now but a couple built a huge house during the boom before and ended up having to knock it down.

    It's happened loads of times over the year, long before the housing crisis and long before the Celtic Tiger



  • #3
    Schorpio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Schorpio


    If there are good reasons given for refusing permission, why are so many people disregarding those reasons?

    A 'good' reason is not universal, and if you are on the wrong side of it (i.e. you have your permission denied) then you'll likely disagree with the reasons outlined by the Planners.

    That doesn't (or shouldn't) give you the right to build whatever you want.

    Interesting that the Murray's make an appearance in that article. There is a longstanding thread on here tracking their saga. I particularly like how they are quoted as 'regretting' their decision - but evidently not to the extent that they will now comply with the law and knock the house down. "We regret that we built the house without planning, but may we keep the house please"........!



  • #4
    BrianD3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,911 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    People are thick, brazen cnuts and county councils are, with some justification, regarded as a joke. People fear Revenue. They don't fear Councils. The figures in that article show that applications for retention are usually granted - and not just in cases where there have been minor deviations.

    "Data released by Sligo County Council under a Freedom of Information request showed that since 2019, nearly 40 retention applications relating to one-off houses have been approved.

    Some were houses that differed from planning permission already granted, while others were houses built without any permission"

    Also, we have the likes of Niall Collins TD and Damien English TD "forgetting" what property they own or where they live when applying for planning permission and getting away with it which undermines the system. I look forward to Damien English's house being bulldozed - nah, not going to happen.



  • #5
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭plodder


    I saw that article and wondered how they distinguished between retention applications for unauthorised developments, and retention applications for works that originally were exempt, but then required permission as part of some subsequent development. There's nothing wrong with the second category, as if the overall application gets refused, the original works are still exempt. But, are they being included in this category of unauthorised retention applications? It might make the problem look bigger than it is, if they are ...

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • #6
    L.Ball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 449 ✭✭L.Ball


    Realistically, they're not gonna come in with bulldozers and tear down these houses are they?



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  • #7
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121636057#Comment_121636057

    They have done it before



  • #8
    SupaCat95
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭SupaCat95


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640040#Comment_121640040

    Remember the guy who had the massive palace at the end of the road in Co. Meath? this was maybe 4 years back? I am not taking sides but the County council wouldnt give him permission (Dont know the grounds) and dont know if they refused planning permission before?. Either way he built and both parties were entrenched for 10 years in a dispute over the property.



  • #9
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121661307#Comment_121661307

    That was been knocked down last time I seen



  • #10
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,216 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121636057#Comment_121636057

    Very possibly.

    The greater the number of cases arising, the more likely they will be made an example of.

    But don't be tempted to have too much sympathy for such people, they knew exactly what they were doing, in the finest Irish tradition of asking not for permission, but forgiveness.

    These tighter planning laws, especially on one-off housing, are there to try and protect the land and ecology for future generations and to reduce the inefficient ribbons of infrastructure that we see.

    Without severe consequences, there would be a planning free-for-all, or plannarchy, if you will.



  • #11
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,202 ✭✭✭political analyst


    This article of 9 August 2025 paywalled but I'll state the most important points here. It's about the case that was covered in a 2024 article that is in the OP and is free to read.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-life-changing-mistake-that-led-to-meath-home-worth-at-least-1m-now-being-on-the-brink-of-demolition/a332131000.html

    Last week (as of this post), the Court of Appeal and An Coimisiún Pleanála (ACP) dismissed separate attempts by the Murrays to prevent the demolition. it now appears they have nearly exhausted all avenues.

    Mr Justice Senan Allen said the legal challenges were "artifices calculated to postpone the evil day".

    Brendan Buck of BPS Planning Consultants had argued to ACP that planning permission had been granted for 3 other properties within a 500 metre radius, despite Meath County Council repeatedly refusing the Murrays due to concerns about density.

    Obviously, there's no justification for what the Murrays did. The question is: why were they refused permission in the first place when permission was granted for 3 other properties within that radius? What is the reason for the apparent inconsistency?

    Furthermore, how did the Council not notice the illegal construction before it was completed? Surely, someone in the Council should have seen it or heard of it at an earlier stage.



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  • #12
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,806 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123714221#Comment_123714221

    The question is: why were they refused permission in the first place when permission was granted for 3 other properties within that radius? What is the reason for the apparent inconsistency?

    The land they built on was sterilised and they knew that. I dont know the specific reason why because I didn't look for it - I dont need to. However, just because some landowners down the road were granted permission to build on their land doesn't remove the validity of the Murray's land being sterilised (and their planner knows that and seems to be just trying the sympathy card)

    Furthermore, how did the Council not notice the illegal construction before it was completed? Surely, someone in the Council should have seen it or heard of it at an earlier stage.

    So each Council should employ staff to constantly drive around the county to look for unauthorised developments?



  • #13
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,202 ✭✭✭political analyst


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123714419#Comment_123714419

    For everyone else's benefit, here's the definition of a sterilisation order in the context of land development. It's from the Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown council website:

    A sterilisation of land deals with the restricting or with regulating development of lands for an agreed period of time, usually 7 years. 

    https://www.dlrcoco.ie/council-democracy/property-management/land-ownership-enquiry

    I've never seen the word "sterilisation" being used in the context of land development before. It seems bizarre.

    One would've assumed that someone in the council would've heard mention of the Murrays' development in conversation locally or that someone in the locality would've reported the development to the council - it would've taken only one anonymous phone call.



  • #14
    astrofool
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,543 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123714481#Comment_123714481

    It came up before onnhere with regard to electricity pylon planning (one poster thought it literally meant sterilising the land due to woo nonsense about electricity).



  • #15
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,764 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    This is all a bit ironic given the government are bypassing planning permission themselves.



  • #16
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,452 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123716970#Comment_123716970

    Do as we say..... Etc



  • #17
    arctictree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,453 ✭✭✭arctictree


    We had planning permission refused and one of the reasons was that they don't want any more traffic on this specific road.

    Since then, 4 more houses were approved planning on the same road.

    Its this inconsistency that really annoys people.

    The local council also fought all the way to the high court to prevent a local derelict building being renovated (as the applicants weren't locals). Yet at the same time grant permission for houses on green field sites. The mind boggles.



  • #18
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,764 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123722893#Comment_123722893

    You should have brought a brown envelope to the FF tent at the Galway races.



  • #19
    joseywhales
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,420 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Planning permission is one of the most corrupt elements of the Irish government. They have given so much power to the most local politicians it was destined to happen. Basically it's a combination of nepotism, xenophobia and straight up bribery or potentially quid pro quo. It's cowboys all around. I had an uncle who built an extra story on a house, which a neighbour discovered and sent him a letter basically asking for money in exchange for silence, which he then reported to the local td, who was his best mate and it all disappeared. It's totally corrupt. On another occasion there was a neighbour who had to get retention on a couple of entire new houses built without permission which he got in exchange for a right of way that the council had been trying to seal, he built them a new lane, let them close the right of way and got his houses approved. I don't envy anyone trying to build in the countryside without adequate connections.



  • #20
    itsacoolday
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123729235#Comment_123729235

    Same as the vacant property grant, probably corrupt at times. Not saying it is in all or most counties, but for the vacant property refurbishment grant you are supposed to leave the exterior wall of the old house intact. And renovate and / or extend then if you want. But someone in the powers to be, high up in the local council knocked an all cottage except for half a wall, and built a new 2 storey monstrosity in an area others were refused planning or just could build a storey and a half type dormer bungalow. Wonder if he got the grant but the neighbors suspect he probably did. No reason to leave the bit of a wall standing otherwise. His builder tried to hide it by wooden sheets instead of wire security panels in the countryside.



  • #21
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,806 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123730272#Comment_123730272

    So your one example of this particular grant process being abused is by someone who you're not really sure if they actually applied for the grant? 🙄



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  • #22
    itsacoolday
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123730564#Comment_123730564

    People have good reasons to have their suspicions ;)

    Lets just say that lots of things happen that should not happen, and some things that are supposed to happen do not happen.

    https://rwnowlan.ie/build-first-ask-later-how-thousands-are-building-without-planning-permission-and-getting-away-with-it/


  • #23
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,806 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    So is your allegation that people are building without planning permission or that they are submitting bogus grant applications or what because so far, your evidence is a blog and an anecdotal tale of someone who corruptly availed of a grant (although they may not have submitted it)?



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