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Spinal Stimulator implant for chronic pain?

  • 06-08-2024 01:55PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,159 ✭✭✭✭


    Hi Folks,

    I have an ongoing neuropathy of the ilioinguinal, hypogastric and genitofemoral nerves. Very painful and very limiting. Over the course of the past 5yrs I've tried every conservative and surgical option available.

    From neuropathics, to opioids, to radio frequency ablation and culminating in a denervation microsurgery a few months ago that has unfortunately had very little effect.

    A possible option floated by my urologist is an implanted spinal stimulator at L1/T12. The hope would be that neuromodulation could improve my pain.

    So I'm hoping someone here has had implant surgery and can let me know how it went for them? Particularly in the long term.



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,159 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    No responses to this query, I'm in with a consultant for suitability assessment at the end of the month and I'll update the thread on my experience.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 62,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gremlinertia


    I'll be interested to hear, something similar may be in my future - hope it goes well



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,159 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    I'll be sure to let you know Grem. The potential treatment plan is implant at dorsal ganglion on my left side L1 & L2. It's really my last roll of the dice before accepting that continuing long term opioids & neuropathic meds are my lot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 KneePatient101


    Tough condition to manage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,159 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Just an update on how I got on Grem. I saw the new specialist yesterday. 1st thing's 1st, he was in possession of referral from both my urologist & my GP and had actually read the files. He asked me to give an explanation of and a map of my pain, asked if I had specific treatments and coping strategies and asked about how I was getting on with medications.

    One thing that has really stood out to me in my own chronic pain is the difference that feeling heard can make. Being heeded and feeling understood makes a huge difference and gives a sense of confidence in the treating Dr.

    I felt heard and he then laid out a plan and even more importantly given how many times I've been enthused about a treatment option that ultimately failed?

    He laid out a plan with alternatives. If option A doesn't work? Then we have an alternative.

    Initial plan is for pulsed RFA of the Dorsal Ganglion at L1, L2 and potentially also T12 to ascertain if that is a viable treatment option before shifting to using an implant.

    I am back in with him soon for the procedure and I'll update again with how the procedure goes.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 62,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gremlinertia


    I appreciate it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,159 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    @Gremlinertia I had the initial spinal dorsal ganglion PRFA today. It could be 4 weeks before I know just how well it went. If I was to base my opinion on the temporary relief that the local provided? I'd say it went very well indeed but, that's a mistake I've made with prior ablation and nerve block treatment.

    I am very pleased with the process and care provided for the procedure. The Dr was very communicative throughout and went to great lengths to ensure both that I understood everything he was doing as he was doing it. Along with my own feedback on pulse and sensation tests to help him ensure he was at the right spot.

    I had mine on left side of L1. The sensation test alone, even if nothing else works this time? Was worth it. It confirmed that aswell as my groin, hip and flank. That the nerve damage is causing pain in front of thigh and my knee too. I've had 3 years of being told that's a different issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,159 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    @Gremlinertia I had a follow up with the consultant today and based on my response to the Dorsal Ganglion ablation and post procedure pain diary. He has recommended that I proceed with a neuromodulation implant.

    I need a psych assessment and insurance approval but op should be within 3 months. The plan is a 2 lead implant along L1 L2 spinal cord. A Medtronic Intellis with adaptive programming.

    I'll let you know how it goes and fingers crossed it makes a difference for me.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 62,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gremlinertia


    Fantastic news for you, delighted and hope it all proceeds at pace



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,159 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    My implant surgery is set for Wednesday.
    I have had an education session this week and will have another in the afternoon after the implant.

    The device won't be switched to active for a couple weeks, I'm due in for a programming session in November and it may take quite a while before it's fully effectively dialled in.
    I was surprised to learn just how much I'll be restricted movement wise for 8 weeks post surgery but, hopefully it will be worth it.

    I'm hopeful that it will make a difference, that it will ensure I can resume a more normal life and not rely on opioids 🤞



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 62,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gremlinertia


    I will have everything crossed for you - am also surprised at the length of restricted movement



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,159 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    I had the implant surgery yesterday.
    Both surgeon and the Medtronic rep are happy with how the op went and the lead placement.

    The op itself, was done via twilight anaesthesia as you are woken up after the leads are placed in your spinal cord to have sensate testing to ensure the leads are covering as much of the affected area as possible.
    I remember portions of that, and there was even a bit of craic during it.

    I had a programming session with the rep in the afternoon. Enough to get me using the device and learning the ins and outs of settings.
    Lead placement has covered from left foot to my hip, and from my groin over my left hip and to my left kidney/mid back.

    In use, I can turn on 1 at a time or both.
    The control options allow both leads to be controlled as "1" as in I can increase or decrease both leads via up/down.
    Or
    I can use 1 lead active at a time, which is quite handy as it means when pain isn't firing everywhere that you can take a more tailored approach.
    Similarly, being able to raise or lower the SCS output on the fly does mean that you can react quickly to increased or decreased pain.

    The effect of the SCS is very uch affected by body position too.
    For example, I might be sitting whilst I have the device on 3ma output and feel a bare tingle.
    If I then raise my arms or lean my back on a cushion, the apparent strength can jump to the effect that a mild tingle becomes a very strong impulse, almost like an electric fence.

    Since the op and in my 1st 24hrs of using the device.
    It's definitely a welcome distraction, part of that is no doubt due to my having "new" pain at y incision sites.
    The device itself, is very straightforward to use esp if you are anyway app savvy.


    The stimulation certainly distracts from my usual pain, I don't know if that's purely the novelty of it.
    I don't want to get too excited as over the years, I have had multiple interventions that gave me huge initial hope.
    Via nerve blocks, peripheral ablation, dorsal ganglion ablation, MSCD and other procedures that all gave me an initial improvement before that benefit fell away.

    I'm trying to balance my sincere hope that this works for me.
    With the cynicism years of failure have hammered into me 😉
    I'll keep the thread updated and my next programming session is the 11/11 and then I get the self monitoring option switched on too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,159 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    A small update.
    As my operative wounds heal and the inflammation dies down, the old chronic pain has been reasserting itself.

    In the immediate aftermath of the surgery I was running my leads at 3 to 3.4 mA.
    Today, a couple of weeks of later, I'm running them at up to 6.8mA and that means recharging daily too.

    There is a huge improvement in the area of pain, I was having referred pain over my left flank, hip and kidney whereas now it's pretty much confined to my groin, thigh and foot.
    But, TBH that pain is as bad as it was prior to the implant.

    Now that may seem like I think this is a failure?
    I don't, far from it.
    I've yet to have my 1st proper programming session and the surgical team are happy with progress so far.
    I'm in on Tuesday to have new modes added and have parameters shifted on my implants output.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,159 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    I was in with the PRI team yesterday to have some additional programming undertaken and to have the closed loop function switched on.
    That function has made an immediate difference to my pain and comfort levels.
    Hopefully the adpative nature of the function will further improve my pain management and will stay effective.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 62,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gremlinertia


    That is incredible - long may it continue for you!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,159 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    An update from a little further down the road since the "neurostim" adaptive programming was switched on.

    The effect and improvement when the hertz pulse was widened from 20hz to 200hz was immediate.
    I was sitting outside the waiting room before I went in debating whether to take opioids immediately or wait until the programming session was over.
    I "knew" that I should wait until the programming session was over to ensure I could give best feedback on changes.

    I was that sore going in, I really was near my limit.
    Yet, 20 minutes with the rep, the nurse and the programmer and I left not only not needing to take a painkiller but travelled from Cork to Limerick without needing more.

    Just being upright, let alone mobile has over the course of this affliction always been a trigger for fairly severe pain.
    From the locus above and behind my left testicle and iliac crest, to radiating/referred pain over my left side from my outside toes to my left kidney.

    The implant has made a huge difference to my referred pain.
    I am still very sore when the pain strikes but, I am sore over far less of an area.

    Still more to try via programming and neurological intervention so fingers crossed for continued improvement.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 62,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gremlinertia


    Incredible - I sweated, vomited and ground my teeth through a horrible day of pain yesterday so although pain levels are still high today it's much more manageable



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,159 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    I had another programming session with the Medtronic Rep yesterday.
    I had been disappointed over the past few weeks with the resurgence in pain at my primary locus.
    The implant has been excellent at knocking back the referred pain, and I found the first few weeks after the last programming session also did a decent job at dialling down the primary locus, but in December it really did start ramping up again.

    Over the course of Late December to yesterday, I would describe myself as being just as sore but in a far smaller area.
    Rather than my entire left side, flank to toes.
    It was primarily just my groin and iliac crest.

    I kept a pain diary, kept tied in with the clinic and for yesterday's programming session.
    The rep made quite a few tweaks and added an additional programme to the device repertoire.

    I think that it's a case of my CNS adapting to the wafeform and pulse repetition over the course of use.
    If I stick to a single programme or output level, within 3/4 days the primary locus will break through and spike my pain.
    The plan for now is that I rotate my device across the output programmes on a more regular basis and the hope is, that will prevent my CNS adapting to and filtering a constant output.

    In related news for anyone interested.
    The invoice was added to my Laya account last week.
    The total cost for the implant, including surgery and overnight stay in Hospital was €21734.
    My insurance covered it all bar €200.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 62,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gremlinertia


    CNS standing for central nervous system yes?

    As always thank you for your updates, I do appreciate the insight.

    I was in for a blast of injections yesterday - intra facet lumbar under X-ray and upper shoulder/neck trigger jabs, there must have been 14 sites and multiple pushes on the lumbar, unpleasant but will keep daily notes on pain to see how long we stay at this..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,159 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    You're more than welcome.
    In my case, the updates are as much for anyone else who finds themselves with intractable groin pain as it is anything else.
    I know from trying to get on top of it here in Ireland, and indeed even the use of a spinal cord stimulator for the issue.
    Is rare, published papers on cord stimulation use for this is vanishingly rare and with not enough participants to be really meaningful IMHO.

    Yes by CNS, I mean central nervous system.
    It's really quite amazing how quickly it will adapt and filter pain back in if left at a steady state on the implant.

    I hope your post injection recovery goes well.



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