Northern Ireland 2125?

Not the thread for a discussion on NATO.

Suffice to say joining a military alliance requires a clear mandate from the people of the island IMO

If they (the electorate) decide it is in our interests, I, as a democrat, will accept that outcome.

That is all that will be asked of the people of NI too, to behave as democrats.

Because they have no say in their fate, they had to accept being taken out of the EU even though a majority there voted to remain.

Let's leave a failed region stewing in it's juices until there is another of the cyclical crisis's it has had since it came into existence.

Not going to happen.

You seem determined to highjack this thread in order to further your love of NATO.

Most Irish people want nothing to do with NATO. In a united Ireland, I don't believe that would change but if there was to be a discussion then I am sure citizens of a future united Ireland will make up their own mind. Personally, I would argue strongly against it.

😁 NATO isn't going to fund us, we would be expected to fund NATO.

Nobody in NI has 'decided' to be in NATO, that decision was made for them, they had nothing to do with it.

As a UI we can decide by democratic majority to join it.

All of us, voting in our own interests.

No. Take a look at Iceland and they are part of NATO and don't have that attitude like Ireland. Of course you could ask yourself who would attack Iceland.

I remember those seniors in the ROI organizing bus trips to NI for routine eye surgery, which apparenty can't be done in the ROI. The NHS isn't good, but it's better than the HSE any time, - that is unless you can afford a private plan.

....cross border medical treatments work both ways on this island. Considering you haven't spent a second addressing the better health outcomes this side of the border, it seems a bit like you're interested in having about as much of a good faith discussion as Downcow with his rapid decline into gloating about marching.

Of course you have democratic rights. They have and will be observed. You’ll be allowed to make your case for the existing Union and will have one vote like everyone equal to you.

The entire island will be voting. If there is a majority for a UI the British administration of the region will be leaving. That’s what they agreed to in the GFA

Do you have a source for anything beyond the Healy Rae claim?

Per WHO, we have 38.8 doctors per 10k population, above the European average of 37.6 and above the UK at 33:

https://data.who.int/indicators/i/CCCEBB2/217795A

Our healthcare expenditure per capita is slightly higher than the UK, but pretty middle of the pack compared with other countries, his tracks with better outcomes prettt strongly; we have a higher life expectancy than the UK

If this is considered as a percentage of income per capita, it looks even more favourable for Ireland vs UK with our much better GNI per capita.

While our wait times certainly need improvement, they're better than in NI

https://factcheckni.org/articles/are-nis-hospital-waiting-lists-over-twice-as-long-as-they-are-in-ireland/

The NI secretary of State agrees with me too;

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/09/19/the-system-isnt-working-one-in-three-people-in-northern-ireland-on-a-medical-treatment-waiting-list/

One can produce similar figures for military and defence in the ROI as well.

The fact is, if the ROI had a health care systems like Switzerland and military and defence like Switzerland then it would be beneficial, most likely very beneficial, for NI to join the ROI.

Ever been to a hospital in Switzerland or a doctor in Switzerland?

Ever seen the air force of Switzerland, their technology, their fighter jets, and compare that to the Irish Air Corps in the ROI?

And then look at the infrastructure Switzerland has. Landing at Zurich Kloten airport, taking a train right from the airport to anywhere in the country. Something one can only dream about in the ROI.

Yes, Switzerland is neutral, but their neutrality is taken way more seriously than what is called neutrality in the ROI. That Irish lame joke "Who would attack us?" is a reason to despise the ROI's neutrality attitude. As harsh as it sounds but it needs to change preferably yesterday.

In the current situation, the ROI has nothing to offer to NI.

The fact is: The ROI is not as "rich" as many believe.

Don't think anyone is petitioning for NI to join Switzerland, but even if it was relevant, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth on the topic; you criticise Ireland for having a higher per capita expenditure than the UK even though it achieves better outcomes.....and then give the example of Switzerland, which has an even greater per capita expenditure....

Ireland may not be as rich as many believe.....but it is in almost every measurable way per capita when compared to the UK, and streets ahead when compared to NI, which has been left to wither on the vine since the decline of textile/shipbuilding industries.

While you could definitely make a point about the relative military power loss in transition from UK to a United Ireland, I've yet to see any figures which paint it as a significant deciding factor, but I would be interested in seeing this?

On a personal level, I would be of the opinion that Ireland should invest significantly more in our military, particularly when it comes to navy/air force, I'm just not convinced it'll be a major contributing factor to convincing people toward Unification.

Here is what you asked:

do you believe that ni is a legitimate state and that the people of ni have the democratic right to resist being pulled out of uk

I answered that you do have democratic rights, now and always. You have the right to argue against a UI and the right to protest about being in a UI. I accept that NI currently fulfils all the criteria to be a legitimate region of the UK. I do not accept it is a country or a state as Scotland, Wales is.

You will not be 'pulled out of the UK', it will be the democratic will of the people to leave the UK

or do you think that the intire island should have a democratic right to vote and if majority says Britain should leave then they should leave?

Yes, this is what I believe. If a democratic majority decide to end partition, NI no longer has 'legitimacy' as a region of the UK and will become a region of a UI.

Give us your pitch for it?

How do you sell a 'belligerent Unionist homeland' (I can't see settled Fermanagh farmers etc, upping sticks to move) to the Irish as a whole? You will need permission to set up this enclave after all.

Will the rest of Ireland be expected to fund this homeland?

Who will live in this 'homeland'?
Will it have different laws to the rest of us?
Will it be in the EU?

Lots of hard questions.