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Youngish Bull poor condition

  • 06-08-2025 11:02AM
    #1
    Silverdream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 741 ✭✭✭


    I have a young Bull just 4 years old so still young imho. But he has gone to skin and bone over the Summer, I reckon he's hardly 400kg now. He doesn't seem to have a scour, he's grazing ok, plenty grass in front of him all Summer. He was in good condition when let out in spring, not over fat but good.

    He is with 15 cows at the moment, they would all have been coming into season over the last 12 weeks, I'm wondering is it too much for him? I have another 15 cows that are only calving now, I can't see him doing the job now.

    Has anyone seen this before, and what are my options. I'm thinking of picking up another bull even an old one for the rest of the year and then put my bull into a shed and try and fatten him.



«1

Comments

  • #2
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    Has he been done for fluke? I've been told by factory agent that there were a lot of fellas having issues with rumen fluke over the winter.

    Could he be injured in some way in mouth or jaw that has put him off eating? I'd be getting the vet out if he has dropped to 400kg. 15 cows shouldn't be too much for him. Doubt he'll be good for the next 15 - I'd worry about what his fertility is like at this stage.



  • #3
    WoozieWu
    Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭WoozieWu


    what weight was he in his prime

    if he was scouring id say johnes but a test is the only way to know and no remedy

    have you shown him to a vet



  • #4
    148multi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭148multi


    FFirst get a dung sample into a lab, immediately start feeding him a high energy nut or ration, when the lab get results to your vet have a good chat with him. In the meantime check his teeth and tongue/ mouth, is he slobbering from the mouth.

    Hope he work's out ok



  • #5
    Silverdream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 741 ✭✭✭Silverdream


    WhatsApp Image 2025-08-06 at 12.17.39(1).jpeg WhatsApp Image 2025-08-06 at 12.17.13.jpeg

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123700427#Comment_123700427

    Not done for fluke, I think he may be fluked but I thought he would be very young for that to effect him.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123700615#Comment_123700615

    About 650kg in his prime

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123700630#Comment_123700630

    Yep, dung sample is a good idea.

    I've him on Hay and high energy beef nuts now. So hopefully he'll start to pick up.



  • #6
    Lime Tree Farm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,124 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    Had an in calf heifer Oct '20 that went to skin & bone. Vet gave her double dose multi min & ivomec super. She's had a calf every March since then.



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  • #7
    mr.stonewall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall


    Had similar this year with some yearlings. Blood tests showed up lack of copper and selenium. Never had any issues like it before. Worthwhile getting a blood test and a poo sample done with the vets.

    Advice from vet was to give multimin and follow up with a bolus about 3 week later



  • #8
    148multi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭148multi


    Fluke can affect weanlings



  • #9
    epfff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭epfff


    He is not bulling any cows in that condition.

    Fluke is not ageist it will effect anything that picks it up.



  • #10
    bogman_bass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    Go for the low hanging fruit first. Dose and minerals



  • #11
    Silverdream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 741 ✭✭✭Silverdream


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123701772#Comment_123701772

    Yep I'm going to have to pick up a replacement, I was thinking there should be old Bulls to be got at cull prices, but that still isn't cheap. I don't see many bulls advertised at the moment.



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  • #12
    148multi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭148multi


    You might get best value with a 12 month old bull, if he has only to cover half the cows, and give him a good winter, I have never seen a suckler man sell a good older bull unless there was an issue.



  • #13
    Diarmuid B
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 193 ✭✭Diarmuid B


    get the vet out and get him tested for Johnes. And he can get him tested for fluke and worms at the same time.



  • #14
    Jb1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭Jb1989


    Had a cow similar. Vet reckoned ate sharp object and pierced heart slightly. Gave her 2 magnets and some course of injections, vet reckoned lost cause. But she turned around over coming weeks and only left the herd 2 years later after not going in calf then



  • #15
    Silverdream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 741 ✭✭✭Silverdream


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123702451#Comment_123702451

    The more I read about Johnes the more worried I am that may be what is wrong. Just hoping it's one of the other issues at this stage, but I'll have to get him tested for it as I don't want that been spread about the place. The only thing is I am not remotely related to Dairy, so I can't see how he could get it.



  • #16
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,999 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    He could have been on a dairy cow or given dairy biestings



  • #17
    Silverdream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 741 ✭✭✭Silverdream


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123702838#Comment_123702838

    😕 That actually rings a bell. Vet is going to blood sample him on Saturday so idk how soon the results would take. I noticed another one of the cows is repeating this morning, they usually go in half by looking at the Bull, so it looks like his fertility might be shot at the moment too.



  • #18
    Diarmuid B
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 193 ✭✭Diarmuid B


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123703149#Comment_123703149

    get him to take a faecal sample aswell and test both for johnes. If the faecal sample is positive then he’s shedding the disease and is definitely infected. Pretty sure the blood will only tell you if he’s got antibodies for it (he’s been exposed to the disease previously)

    If his dung is like pipe diahorrea that’s a sure sign he has johnes I think



  • #19
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,999 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    The scour , losing condition and lump under the jaw are late signs of johnes.



  • #20
    CHOPS01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 785 ✭✭✭CHOPS01


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123702767#Comment_123702767

    Had an AA bullock here 2 years ago heading towards 30 months. Started to lose a bit of condition during the summer months at the same time as he was walking lame. Had a dity enough cut just above the hoof so put his worsening condition down to that. Solved the cut easy enough with antibiotic and spray(the usual) and thought no more only that he'd improve. But he didn't just tipped away eating grass and meal as he was in a bunch for finishing. No improvement whatsoever and started to go backwards while starting to turn a little scoury. Vet out put it down to fluke, dosed him and got minerals. No improvement and the scour got worse, just fading away in stature. Different vet out, one look at him and said Johnes. Almost at the stage of do we put him down. Not sure what he gave him but he turned a corner just enough to perk him up a little and bind the dung a bit. Got him away to the factory about 4 weeks later. Small money but better than paying for the dead truck.

    When I saw your picture I thought of my lad straight away.



  • #21
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,554 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Could it be photosensitization? That was the first thing I thought when I saw the reddish skin.

    Secondly , I'd be thinking Johnes Disease.



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  • #22
    Jb1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭Jb1989


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123707956#Comment_123707956

    Valid point on the first one, is eyes pink or yellow, any flaking or cut skin?



  • #23
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,999 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Was The vet out?



  • #24
    older by the day
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,596 ✭✭✭older by the day


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123709730#Comment_123709730

    Don't mind the vet, he should go away and give 12ml of ivomec super to the bull, then put him in a good field of grass, don't mind his hay. He never did him for fluke.

    A four year old bull could serve 50 cows in two months, if he was going right.



  • #25
    Silverdream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 741 ✭✭✭Silverdream


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123709730#Comment_123709730

    Vet was out, he took blood but results will take 2 weeks for johnes. I have to drop his dung sample into the office Monday. He wasn't sure what is wrong with him, he reckoned all my cattle need to be dosed as some of the cows are coughing too, he instructed me to do everything for fluke and worms and to go on the high end of the amount to give them if unsure of the weights go higher to be sure.



  • #26
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,999 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Any Improvement



  • #27
    Silverdream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 741 ✭✭✭Silverdream


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123729451#Comment_123729451

    Still the same way, he's been dosed and given minerals. He also is eating ok and getting a bucket of nuts daily but I don't see any change in his condition. Still waiting for the results back from the tests too.



  • #28
    Silverdream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 741 ✭✭✭Silverdream


    To update, he came back Neg for Johnes, still waiting for the Dung sample results, but the culprit must be fluke at this stage



  • #29
    Diarmuid B
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 193 ✭✭Diarmuid B


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123742730#Comment_123742730

    where did you send the dung sample to?



  • #30
    Silverdream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 741 ✭✭✭Silverdream


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123743319#Comment_123743319

    I dropped it into the Vets, I don't know where they send it to but they told me 2 weeks for the results



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  • #31
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,719 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I would presume that vets could check tgat under a microscope

    Slava Ukrainii



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