Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 02/09/25*

Natty that’s just disappointing 😒

I said:

They are not courts, they are not Islamic law courts, and the reason they’re allowed in the UK is because they are not in violation of civil laws.

Bold emphasis my own.

You’re not off to a great start for a discussion without the hysteria when you have to invent stuff to manufacture an argument, then you say we both know you’re wasting your time but you’ll educate me anyway, and present an article which contradicts your assertion. Then when I pointed out the contradiction, you directly contradict your own evidence, and for a dazzling finale of intellectual honesty, you claim that I said it myself, Islamic law courts, like that can’t easily be verified.

Perhaps I have yet to be educated in much more than what you consider to be an intellectually honest discussion without any of the hysteria, because we appear to be on very different wavelengths!

It doesn’t matter what you say, you are afraid to admit the truth. 

Clearly it does matter what I say if you’re now claiming on top of everything else that I’m also afraid to admit the truth.

They are Islamic law courts. That’s how they are described by those who run them. Definition from the horses mouth above. 

That’s not what they are, nor is it how they are described by those who run them, and the definition you’re claiming is definitely not from the horses mouth. This, is the definition of Sharia Councils, from the horses mouth:

We are the oldest Shari’a Council in Europe, established in 1982, and were formed to solve the matrimonial problems of Muslims living in the United Kingdom in the light of Islamic family law. The Council comprises of members from all of the major schools of Islamic legal thought (madhab) and is widely accepted as an authoritative body with regards to Islamic law. The ISC maintains a strict policy of employing staff and scholars with the highest moral integrity and values.

https://www.islamic-sharia.org

Why are you so determined to deny their existence? What are you afraid of? 

At no point have I ever denied the existence of Sharia Councils. I have however asked you to provide evidence of Islamification and the influence of Islam in politics and law in countries like the UK, France and Ireland, because what evidence you’ve provided so far has directly contradicted your assertions. That doesn’t mean you’re afraid to provide evidence, I’ve no doubt you would if you could.

Since you won’t accept their own definition, there’s little point to me arguing with you until I get a warning/ban, so I’ll leave it there. As I said at the outset, you won’t accept any evidence, we both knew you wouldn’t. But everyone else on this thread can make their own mind up.

I don’t accept your definition, I’m sure you’re aware of the difference, and since neither of us have resorted to hysteria and personal attacks, I see no reason either of us would be subject to any sanctions. I’d accept evidence in support of your claims if you were actually to present evidence in support of your claims, but providing an article which directly contradicts your claims and then suggesting I’m at fault for not accepting evidence which doesn’t support your claims? I dunno what the hell that’s about, regardless of whether or not anyone else on the thread has made their own mind up or not. You’re suggesting they would agree with you in spite of your inability to present evidence in support of your claims of the Islamification of Ireland which is the argument you presented, imagining that it should be taken seriously.

The court of public opinion has about as much legal effect as Sharia Councils in Irish law - that is to say, none whatsoever.

No? I mean, if the suggestion is that there is evidence of an Islamic influence on politics in Europe, then it would be reasonable to expect the person making the claim should be able to produce evidence of a political policy influenced by Islam. I don’t know of any in Ireland, the UK or France, which is why I asked.

But when you say ‘plenty’, it’s easy enough put that into context too -

France:

Muslims, who represent 10% of the French population according to the national statistics bureau, now have a representation of approximately 3.29% in the Parliament.

UK:

The General Election in 2024 has resulted in the election of 25 Muslim MPs, which means they make up almost 4% of the total 650 MPs.

Ireland (had to go back a few years for this one):

Dr Mossajee Bhamjee became the first Muslim elected to the Dáil when he was elected as a Labour deputy for Clare.

Links below:

https://muslimmirror.com/french-elections-19-muslim-lawmakers-elected-left-coalition-tops-results/

https://www.mwnhub.com/read-detail.php?id=242

https://www.rte.ie/archives/exhibitions/688-elections/699-general-election-1992/287952-election-1992/

To suggest Islamification is something which Ireland needs be concerned about given that the fastest growing demographic amongst religious demographics are actually non-religious, and they’re fighting for places in Catholic schools, I think to suggest Islamification as some sort of a threat to Irish society takes a level of departure from reality that I don’t know most people would be entirely comfortable with 😂

Interesting. I did wonder whether people might start returning to church at some point, not for religious reasons as much as just wanting to stand together. A desire to show that we're still here and that Islam wont have things its own way.

I'm not a statistician but id say there's a positive correlation between countries with a high Muslim population and countries more at risk of climate change as well. These climate refugees have to go somewhere...

Extreme heat stress risk:

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/climate-impacts/global-impacts-of-climate-change---projections

(India doesn't show up as particularly high percentage wise, even though it has the third highest Muslim population)

Yeah Im thinking in centuries. If you multiply your decades of change by ten you get centuries.

These climate refugees have to go somewhere...

They’re as likely to stay where they are, considering they believe that climate change is nothing more than Western propaganda -

https://intellectdiscover.com/content/journals/10.1386/jams_00103_1

India doesn't show up as particularly high percentage wise, even though it has the third highest Muslim population

It wouldn’t when 80% of its population are Hindu who believe Muslims are a threat to Indian society -

https://time.com/6320003/india-weaponizing-history-against-muslims/

80% of its population are Hindu who believe Muslims are a threat

That's more of a push factor so.

We'd want to tighten up on our 'pull factors' here, especially when our neighbors seem to be trying to get on top of the situation.

https://www.fragomen.com/insights/european-unionschengen-area-internal-schengen-border-checks-further-extended.html

Seeing women cover their whole body with the burqa is not something I want my children to grow up in. It gives me the shivers and I fill with anger when i see it. This is Ireland, this is Europe, this is the West, it is not a Muslim country or continent. The burqa and Islam in general is antithesis of European/Western values. Why would we want or accept more of that?

See what though? Centuries into the future? That’s not a question of being blind or not, it’s a question of whether your opinion has any merit whatsoever. Claiming to be able to see centuries into the future doesn’t make you a prophet, it makes you a charlatan.

But contrary to your earlier assertion, that’s something you made up entirely in your own head?

And unlike your good self, I not only read posts, I actually respond to what’s said, not what I make up in my head.

I mean, sure, you respond to what’s said, but that’s something you made up in your own head because I challenged you on your assertion about the Islamification of Ireland, for which you chose to educate me by presenting an article for me to read which directly contradicted your assertion, one that appears to be entirely made up in your own head, and because I don’t share your view, I’m afraid to tell the truth?

It just doesn’t make any sense, it’s entirely based upon your own perception.