Republic of Ireland as part of the UK?

Seth Brundle · 30-07-2025 04:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123683591#Comment_123683591

I mentioned that the UK were net contributors to the EEC / EU funds. In other words, in financial terms, they paid in more to EEC / EU funds than they got out. That is a fact, not an opinion.
The argument about the benefits the UK got from being a member of the EU, the increased or decreased sales, the affect on its domestic manufacturing , the cheaper trading costs due to less barriers to trade and so on is a different debate.

Unless you are being deliberately disingenuous you cannot make the claim that the Uk were net contributors and refuse to accept the benefits from that membership.
So are you being disingenuous and if not, then do you accept that the Uk received massive benefits from its membership, possibly outweighing its net contribution?

The BBC reported "The UK is paying France hundreds of millions of pounds to stop the boats leaving the French coast" as a fact, not as an opinion. Do you think the BBC does not check what it presents as facts?
If you do not know anything about French / UK relations, google is your friend:

It is not my responsibility to back up your argument.
Your initial link was an opinion piece.

Under a three-year deal made in March 2023, the UK agreed to provide €541 million (around £476 million at the time of the agreement) between 2023/24 and 2025/26. France agreed to make an unspecified “substantial and continuing” contribution".

Looking at your link, where does it mention that the Uk would pay France millions to stop the boats?

Are you referring to the €541m towards a joint operation where UK border staff will be based in France and will compliment the French efforts in stopping migrants taking the dangerous crossing?

7 – Illegal migration
France and the United Kingdom are partners in the fight against human trafficking, people smuggling and illegal migration, from the Channel to the Mediterranean and beyond. They committed to reinforce their bilateral co-operation, not to manage the problem but to break it. This is firmly in their joint interest. They are committed to reinforce their bilateral co-operation, building on the 2018 Sandhurst Treaty and their Interior Ministers’/ Home Secretaries’ joint declaration of November 14th 2022. This follows the positive work to date which has seen 1,381 crossings carrying 33,788 illegal migrants prevented in 2022. They agreed to increase the interception rate and drastically reduce the number of crossings year on year.
To deliver this, France and the United Kingdom have agreed a joint multi-year operational plan and a joint funding arrangement. On top of the substantial and continuing French contribution, the contribution of the United Kingdom, over the next three years will be 141 M€ for 2023-2024, 191 M€ for 2024-2025 and 209 M€ for 2025-2026.
Within existing French and United Kingdom operational structures, they will enhance their cooperation at sea to save lives and avoid further tragedies in the Channel.
To this end, both countries will intensify their efforts to undermine human traffickers’ business model, committing to increased prevention of crossings. Specifically to support these efforts, the United Kingdom has agreed to fund a further increase of 500 in law enforcement and human resources deployments in France, and invest in new infrastructure and surveillance equipment to enable swifter detection of crossing attempts. These UK investments will put more drones, helicopters and aircraft in the sky, contributing to the effort of French authorities to monitor a larger area of northern France and prevent more crossings as well as increased management capacities for irregular migrants, including the creation of a retention centre, which will contribute significantly to improve the number of returns and prevent the recurrence of crossing attempts. These multiannual commitments to funding and activity from the United Kingdom and France respectively are underpinned by a range of agreed metrics to measure progress and success.
France will establish a new “Zonal coordination initiative” in Lille, under French command, to maximise the operational response to migratory issues in the Channel, responsible for coordination of all relevant French law enforcement, supported by the United Kingdom and including a permanent presence (24/7) of an embedded British officer.
France and the United Kingdom will continue to work together to tackle the organised crime groups (OCGs) that facilitate these dangerous journeys. France and the United Kingdom commit to further develop, where necessary, intelligence sharing and joint investigations to dismantle criminal gangs.
Both countries will further study ways to pursue their cooperation to tackle OCGs, for instance in deploying new digital intelligence capabilities by France, with the support of the National Crime Agency (NCA) in their deployment through the provision of training and sharing best practice. The NCA will further support the French response through the deployment of a liaison officer working in their partner agency (OLTIM). In addition to this, France and the United Kingdom will enhance sharing of covert intelligence between our nations in relation to organised immigration crime.
France and the UK will strengthen joint efforts to tackle the supply chain of equipment that enables dangerous and illegal small boat crossings. They will co-lead a new initiative that brings together a coalition of states who will work together, using customs powers and intelligence capabilities, to identify and disrupt supply chains and limit the availability of equipment in France.
France and the United Kingdom committed to develop their joint upstream activities in source and transit countries to disrupt trafficking networks and address the root causes and enablers of illegal migration, continuing to work with other European partners, especially via the “Calais Group” and taking into account EU initiatives in that respect.
Taking into account the need to put an end to the illegal activities of smugglers in the Channel area and in order to avoid dangerous crossings to save lives, they pronounce their willingness for work to be done towards an EU-UK cooperation agreement on migration, in consistency with the Trade and Cooperation Agreement between the EU and the United Kingdom and without prejudice to necessary discussion on EU level.
As part of their joint upstream activity, France and the United Kingdom will intensify their cooperation to avoid the development of a new illegal migratory route in the Indian Ocean, including on sharing operational intelligence and information on vessels, organising returns and continuing the dialogue with Sri Lankan authorities on preventing smugglers’ activities. To this end, France and the United Kingdom will aim to set up together a joint plan of action on illegal migrations in the Indian Ocean by summer 2023.

My guess is that again, you were being disingenuous with your points!

Seth Brundle · 30-07-2025 04:41PM

Mod: Adams is not the subject being discussed here - post deleted

Capt'n Midnight · 30-07-2025 05:59PM

IIRC until as recently as 1951 ~90% of our exports went the the UK

Now it's 9% and if you exclude NI which is in the EU customs union, it's 8% to GB and falling.

The UK vetoed an EU ban on China dumping steel , to save £5 per household on cheap Chinese shoes. It didn't help the UK steel industry.

FrancieBrady · 30-07-2025 06:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123683970#Comment_123683970

The UK is on a wobbly path socially and politically.
IMO it is in a 20-30 cycle of breaking up unless something arrests the path it is on. It's constituent parts are considering leaving or debating leaving.

That is not a place worthy of consideration to join.

Francis McM · 31-07-2025 01:15PM

One interesting consequence of Brexit is that the EU is facing a higher 15% tariff rate on its goods exported to the U.S. compared to the 10% levy the U.K. has agreed to. I suppose the UK has always had a special relationship with the U.S., both of those G7 countries mention it from time to time.

Before Brexit, the UK would've backed the likes of Ireland, the Netherlands, Poland etc when it came to policies determining EU grants, economic competitiveness etc. With the UK gone, it has become a Franco-German power grab. We have only a 1% say in the running of Europe, and what parliament is going to listen to the quality of our MEPs like Ming when they do turn up?

Seth Brundle · 31-07-2025 01:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686019#Comment_123686019

I'll simply refer you to this post by @Peregrinus…

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123679134#Comment_123679134

Francis McM · 31-07-2025 01:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686033#Comment_123686033

You are forgetting so many things that are negative for the EU, compared to the UK-USA deal. For example, the EU has had to commit itself to $600bn (£450bn) of US investments, $750bn in long-term fossil-fuel energy purchases and to buy more US military kit.

The 15% tariffs has implications for us: pharmaceuticals had historically been exempt from duties. Medicines are the largest European exports to the United States by value and the EU accounts for about 60% of all pharmaceutical imports to the U.S…..a lot of it from Ireland.

Would'nt be surprised if Trump comes back for another bite of the cherry sometime, given how he views Ireland.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2025/07/09/donald-trumps-latest-threat-on-pharma-tariffs-raises-big-questions-for-ireland/

Seth Brundle · 31-07-2025 01:37PM

Mod: Discuss the EU-US deal in that thread - this is not a discussion on it! Stop trying to derail this thread

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2025 01:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686019#Comment_123686019

Thread is about the UK and it joining with Ireland.

The UK is not a stable entity atm. I believe it will get worse and may result in a democratic break up.

pjdarcy · 31-07-2025 01:45PM

You should have added a vote option OP. The only valid options would of course be

A. No

B. F**K NO!

Seth Brundle · 31-07-2025 01:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686132#Comment_123686132

Ah, to be fair, there are a very small few who, for whatever bizarre and biased reason, would like to see Ireland give up its sovereignty, it's republic and rejoin the UK where it once again be subservient to England and where, like the other subservient nations within the UK, it will have very little say in the overall governance.

Personally, I cannot offhand think of a single positive for Ireland to rejoin the UK but I know for a fact that there are many negatives

pjdarcy · 31-07-2025 01:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686143#Comment_123686143

Fair point. There's always a Jim Corr / flat earther that we need to consider.

Francis McM · 31-07-2025 04:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123683716#Comment_123683716

We were not talking about the bigger picture of whither the EU was good for Britain: that is quite a complicated matter. While EU membership was good for trade within Europe, remember for example how it was viewed at the time from countries like Australia and New Zealand, who feel New Zealand’s historically vital relationship with Britain lessened after Britain joined the European Economic Community in 1973. As one Aussie said, "the UK was our #1 trading partner for meat and wool and grain. And overnight it all just evaporated. Australia and NZ were left scrambling around looking for new markets."

The point was that the UK was the second biggest net contributor to the EEC / EU. It paid in much more than it got back in grants etc. You can argue if membership of the club was worth it or not, considering the cost of membership. At the time of the vote for Brexit it appears most British people did not want to continue being members of the EU. Some were quite annoyed at how their British money, as they saw it, was being sent to Brussels to be squandered , as they saw it, in some other countries on dubious schemes, with well off EU middlemen /women raking off a percentage for themselves of course.

We on the other hand received much more than we paid in to EEC / EU funds. Membership of the club was very good for us, no doubt about it.

Good to know we are agreed on my point the UK is paying France hundreds of millions of pounds to try to stop the boats leaving the French coast. We know small boats are still making the crossing but the UK is trying to stop them. It is dangerous if nothing else. Before Brexit there were cartoons about refugees leaving the UK for the EU in inflatable boats once Brexit happened. Seems they are still going the other way. Was proved right yet again.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jun/06/uk-taxpayers-face-extra-costs-as-france-plans-channel-small-boat-interceptions

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-64916446

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2025 05:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686686#Comment_123686686

You can argue if membership of the club was worth it or not, considering the cost of membership.

There is no argument here.

The people have Brexit Regret.

I.E. They regret it and if asked again wouldn't vote for it. The UK is tripping over itself to mitigate the effects of it and to try and get closer to the EU.

Francis McM · 31-07-2025 05:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686720#Comment_123686720

Most of those people were not even born when, in the early seventies the UK was "Australia's #1 trading partner for meat and wool and grain. And overnight it all just evaporated. Australia and NZ were left scrambling around looking for new markets". Who know what would have happened UK economy if it was never part of EEC / EU.

The point was that the UK was the second biggest net contributor to the EEC / EU. It paid in much more than it got back in grants etc. You can argue if membership of the club was worth it or not, considering the cost of membership.

The issue was much more clear cut for us: We on the other hand received much more than we paid in to EEC / EU funds. Membership of the club was very very good for us, no doubt about it.

Seth Brundle · 31-07-2025 05:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686686#Comment_123686686

We were not talking about the bigger picture of whither the EU was good for Britain: that is quite a complicated matter. While EU membership was good for trade within Europe, remember for example how it was viewed at the time from countries like Australia and New Zealand, who feel New Zealand’s historically vital relationship with Britain lessened after Britain joined the European Economic Community in 1973. As one Aussie said, "the UK was our #1 trading partner for meat and wool and grain. And overnight it all just evaporated. Australia and NZ were left scrambling around looking for new markets."
The point was that the UK was the second biggest net contributor to the EEC / EU. It paid in much more than it got back in grants etc. You can argue if membership of the club was worth it or not, considering the cost of membership. At the time of the vote for Brexit it appears most British people did not want to continue being members of the EU. Some were quite annoyed at how their British money, as they saw it, was being sent to Brussels to be squandered , as they saw it, in some other countries on dubious schemes, with well off EU middlemen /women raking off a percentage for themselves of course.

You introduced the point about the UK's membership of the EU - I correctly pointed out that your claim was misleading to suit your general anti-EU narrative - that the UK were net contributors was not looking at the fact that EU membership brought them massive financial gains and massive financial savings. No ifs or buts.

That the British electorate were not aware of how beneficial the Eu was to the UK was a deliberate ploy by successive British governments, especially Tory led governments. However, they were generally lying e.g. Tories claiming to have removed roaming charges rather that being honest and saying that it was an EU measure. Successive British governments allowed a false narrative to build up (ignoring the sh1te that Johnson himself wrote including a ban on bendy bananas).

However, I would challenge how dominant the argument that the overall cost of membership was a deciding factor. There were so many factors at play in the UK electorate's decision to leave but in general English nationalism and anti-immigration would be up there but in terms of the EU relationship, I think a lot of what the electorate thought was based on misinformation or general ignorance.

Causes of the vote in favour of Brexit - Wikipedia

As for your points about NZ and AUS - to my knowledge, trade with them reduced simply because the UK now had a bigger market on its doorstep with much lower transport costs and less red tape.
Anyone proposing that Ireland leave the EU would also be suggesting leaving that big market and also reintroducing the headaches of red tape.

We on the other hand received much more than we paid in to EEC / EU funds. Membership of the club was very good for us, no doubt about it.

One correction to the above - Membership of the club is very good for us.
Irish people are smart and know how good it has been as part of the EU and how stupid it would be to consider leaving, especially if it were to just rejoin the UK

Good to know we are agreed on my point the UK is paying France hundreds of millions of pounds to try to stop the boats leaving the French coast. We know small boats are still making the crossing but the UK is trying to stop them. It is dangerous if nothing else. Before Brexit there were cartoons about refugees leaving the UK for the EU in inflatable boats once Brexit happened. Seems they are still going the other way.

I did not agree with you. You're being deceptive here - you have not shown how the UK is paying France millions to stop the boats.

What you may be trying to refer to (but you're not actually saying) is how the two countries are both spending money trying to stop migrants crossing the dangerous Channel.

Francis McM · 31-07-2025 05:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686743#Comment_123686743

The EEC's impact on Britain is a complex issue with both perceived benefits and drawbacks. While membership brought economic advantages like access to the European single market and increased trade, it also involved financial contributions and a perceived loss of sovereignty. Ultimately, whether the EEC was "good" for Britain is a matter of ongoing debate and depends on individual perspectives and priorities.

One thing for sure about Brexit, people will not vote for a pig in a poke again, like some people think they may vote for a so called United Ireland. Too may unexpected, unforseen costs and consequences. At the time of Brexit vote for example, how many voters would have considered or factored in the UK's Brexit "divorce bill," officially known as the financial settlement for leaving the EU, which have since been estimated to be as high as £42.5 billion. This figure is an estimate of the UK's outstanding obligations to the EU, including spending commitments made during its membership and pensions for EU staff.

As regards, the migrants crossing the English channel ( guess which direction), since 2018, more than 150,000 people have made the perilous Channel crossing as French cops watched them go.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35308182/migration-sun-says-small-boats-france-opinion/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14790193/French-demand-money-Britain-stop-migrants-boats-cross-English-Channel.html

Seth Brundle · 31-07-2025 05:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686769#Comment_123686769

The EEC's impact on Britain is a complex issue with both perceived benefits and drawbacks. While membership brought economic advantages like access to the single market and increased trade, it also involved financial contributions and a perceived loss of sovereignty. Ultimately, whether the EEC was "good" for Britain is a matter of ongoing debate and depends on individual perspectives and priorities.

So in other words, you were introducing something off-topic in the hope that it portrayed the UK in a good light/the EU is a poor light.

As regards, the migrants crossing the English channel ( guess which direction), since 2018, more than 150,000 people have made the perilous Channel crossing as French cops watched them go.

Again, not answering my point that your original claim that the UK is paying France millions to stop the boats is a lie.
So one last time: do you want to correct that lie?

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2025 05:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686740#Comment_123686740

If my granny had….etc etc.

The UK and all members know the deal. The UK knew as a big economy what was expected of it financially. The UK and nobody else decided that was a good deal, because everyone knows what you get back from being a member.
We knew we would one day become net contributors, that day has come and passed and we are still happily members.
We were not happy to stay in the UK and a falling number are happy to stay in it in NI.

There is no groundswell of support to rejoin the UK for a reason.

Francis McM · 31-07-2025 05:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686786#Comment_123686786

It is not millions : according to the sources I linked, it is hundreds of millions.

Francis McM · 31-07-2025 05:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686797#Comment_123686797

We are not a big country ( by European standards) and we have got much more from the EEC / EU than we ever put in. Now that the UK has left, we have to chip in more that we take out.

Seth Brundle · 31-07-2025 05:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686801#Comment_123686801

Is this the same source that I posted a link to - a HMG publication that showed it wasn't a payment to France to stop the boats but was a payment by the UK towards a project also funded by the French?

So again, you're confirming that you are deliberately posting false information here?

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2025 05:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686808#Comment_123686808

So what?
We are happy to do it. It's a mutually beneficial Union. The UK isn't, everywhere is way behind London and the South.

Seth Brundle · 31-07-2025 05:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686813#Comment_123686813

We're it to come to it, Ireland (or any EU member) can leave the EU. The likes of Scotland need permission from London to hold a referendum - they're not free to leave.

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2025 05:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686819#Comment_123686819

Yep.
Scotland, NI, and Wales did not want to leave it. They had to because the English voted for it.

The UK is Englandcentric. And if you dig a bit deeper it is southern England/Londoncentric.

n.d.os · 31-07-2025 05:41PM

None of us lived through the time when England ruled Ireland, but a lot of us still carry a certain distaste for the UK. I notice it especially among the Boomer generation, probably because they grew up during the Troubles and saw a lot of what was happening in the North. That period left a mark.

That said, English rule did shape parts of Irish culture. Without it, Ireland might look very different today. We have beautiful Georgian and Victorian architecture across the country, especially in cities like Dublin, and there are other cultural influences that stuck around too. Some people might not like to hear this, but I think the Irish middle class is often more influenced by British culture than Irish. You see it in things like media, accents, and even lifestyle. But when you look at the working class and the upper class, there’s often a stronger sense of Irish identity, just expressed in different ways.

That’s just how culture works now. Brexit stirred up a lot of bad feeling toward the UK again, and the Boris Johnson years didn’t help Ireland’s view of Britain either. But I think that’ll settle down over time.

Personally, I’ve no issue with the UK. I’d be happy to see stronger ties between the two countries, though I think it’s more important for Ireland to stay close to Europe. I’d love to see a tunnel or train link between Ireland and the UK. It’d be great for tourism and business. I don’t mind the royals, and I think a lot of Ireland’s history is tied to the UK in ways that are worth understanding, not just resenting. I’m proud we’re a republic, and I’m glad we’re independent, but I also think we should be able to look at the past, learn from it, and maybe even like the UK a bit more than we do now.

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2025 05:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686847#Comment_123686847

I actively work on preserving the heritage left by the British.
No issue with anything you say and would agree.
Not easy to 'like' the British government though, through my lived history, what went on before I was born or in the last 10-15 years.

Francis McM · 31-07-2025 06:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686839#Comment_123686839

All countries are centric towards their capitals. You could also say Ireland is Dublin-centric. Many rural towns are way behind parts of Dublin for example, same as parts of the UK are behind the more prosperous parts of the main center(s) of population there.

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2025 06:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686942#Comment_123686942

Francis, listen to the UK itself, talk about and discuss it.

If it can accept there is a massive North South divide and that England is the top dog in the Union, what difference do you think, you objecting to it being said, is going to make?

Podge_irl · 31-07-2025 06:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686942#Comment_123686942

The UK absolutely hamstrings a city with a metropolitan area population about half of Ireland. It is not comparable.

I mean this whole argument is silly, no one serious is suggesting it. There would be zero benefit to Ireland in any way, shape or form to re-joining the UK.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123686808#Comment_123686808

We have put in more than we take out since before the Brexit vote, never mind before the UK left.

Republic of Ireland as part of the UK?

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