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Republic of Ireland as part of the UK?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 779 ✭✭✭Randycove


    they charged us 1% over what they had to pay and agreed to remove the clause stating their loans had to be repaid first, so that we could repay the IMF loan that had a higher interest rate. The British tax payer also ended up bailing out Ulsterbank and taking the hit on the results loans they had dished out. They did this to prevent a fire sale of properties in the UK that Irish banks had lent money for. KBC bank had to do the same for its Irish subsidiaries.
    don’t underestimate the huge impact the Irish property bubble had on other countries, our banks and property developers caused a lot of more harm than to just us and the actions of the government afterwards had a huge knock on effect as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 318 ✭✭Soc_Alt


    Yes. There are irish people within the ROI who would support leaving the EU and joining the UK.

    I would guess that's it's a very small % of people though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,425 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Andy Pollack is a journalist who blogs on these matters. I have been reading him for years.
    He is from a Unionist background and has that siege mentality that Unionism still can't get past.

    The problem he and you have is that you have a vision of what pro-UIers want a UI to be, that isn't based in any reality.

    I asked you to elaborate on this:

    A border poll under the conditions envisaged by Sinn Fein

    but of course you won't because it would be a slanted biased account full of republicans wreaking revenge for what they went through in first 80 years of NI.

    I.E. you cannot back it up. It would also be completely useless as SF will not be 'setting the conditions for a border poll, that is already laid out by international agreement.

    You seem to think that because an idea has been mentioned that that is enough to make it credible, what you and Andy Pollack have not addressed is getting majority democratic support for what would be an extension/life support of partition to favour bitter partitionists and Unionists.

    If we get to a border poll that is going to be a very difficult if not impossible argument to make, and I see it very much remaining subject matter for journalists because a politician (certainly not a southern one I can think of or envisage)will not go near it.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 11,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Or you could just use Google and look at something like the Eurobarometer….

    You could recognise that UK is not a democracy: No constitution, an unelected head of state, an unelected upper house, a Prime Minister who uses the King's Prerogative to subvert parliment, a King who has interfered with the operation of parliment to his advantage, no bill of rights and as a result rely on the ECHR to gurantee citizens rights…. And you expect citizens of one of only two direct democracies in Western Europe to agree to join that…..

    And we don't even need to address the economic reck that is the UK…

    You have a lot to research….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    Nobody has to tell / sell U anything-

    50 + 1 is just needed- U can just be part of the minority that did not want a United Ireland 32-



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    Russian / Nato can fly near or over us- none of them will be stupid enough to invade Ireland- look at the way Russia is bogged down in Ukraine- and the way the Irish kicked the brit up the hole-

    Ain't No country stupid enough to invade Ireland-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52 ✭✭Declan05


    If I were to look for one word (or 2 if one wants to be pedantic) for why Ireland will never be part of the UK again, it would be the Famine. Likewise one word why Ukraine will never again be part of a Russia dominated union, Holodomor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,623 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You see nobody is looking to get majority support for a federal solution, it will be seen by those, like yourself, who favour a single unitary state, as another stepping-stone towards a single unitary state, so even though you don't like it, you will vote for it, if the alternative is the status quo.

    Where it gets traction is with the minority in the middle, which is what is required to push any vote over the threshold.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,754 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    There's more chance of Scotland becoming part of us , and then having a breakup like Czechoslovakia into Czech/Czechia and Slovakia after getting back into the EU.

    It's unlikely especially since Spain has no objections to Scotland (re)joining as an independent country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,425 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No, I (even in it's embryonic state) and no doubt the minority will see it for what it is. An unworkable life support mechanism for something that has failed, A salve for those who cannot cope and indeed, have never coped with democracy. It's similar to the 'super majority' talk we hear.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 481 ✭✭myfreespirit


    The Famine is certainly a compelling reason for Ireland never being part of our neighbouring country, but there are myriad other reasons:

    • Despotic, cruel misrule over many centuries
    • Lies and lack of good faith from the UK ruling class since forever
    • The somewhat successful efforts by the imperialists to eradicate the Irish language and culture (as expressed in relation to the 19th century English education system in Ireland: "… to make good little English children out of the Irish")
    • Impoverishment of many, many generations of Irish people as a result of English plundering... one could go on and on

    How any sane, reasonably well-informed person could countenance the suggestion of Ireland being part of the UK, is beyond belief



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,442 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    So what?

    Bank of Ireland and AIB's substantial operations in the UK were bailed out by the Irish taxpayer.

    UK banks like RBS managed to screw the pooch badly because of their failed UK operations, regardless of anything happening in Ireland. The Irish government had no input into the bad decisions of RBS, HBOS, Northern Rock, etc.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,442 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    If Pollak and these academics are such political geniuses, why hasn't a major political party adopted their ideas? Failing that, why haven't they set up their own? All this talk of a substantial chunk of the NI population wedded to a "Northern Irish" identity i.e. not also identifying as British or Irish, is fluff

    Post edited by Hotblack Desiato on

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Aye, it's mostly b*llocks that Blanch massively oversells, with all the confidence of someone who has little to no direct experience. I'd consider myself Northern Irish and remain a staunch Nationalist, I've plenty of mates who are the same way minded, and plenty who would consider themselves Northern Irish but feel staunchly Unionist. It's a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction that could possibly be convinced by maintaining partition but under Dublin rule.

    While I'm open to federal solutions and decentralisation in a new Ireland, I don't think the partitioned state swapping London for Dublin is going to feature as anything beyond a fringe footnote in real talk outside a very niche circle of folk who like to smell their own farts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 779 ✭✭✭Randycove


    BofI and AIB’s operations in the UK didn’t need bailing out because they didn’t have the same level of bad debt. That was what the bailout was for, to stop them selling all of those assets in a panic, causing a massive hit to the commercial property market in the UK and then using the money to bail out the Irish operations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭Woodie40


    What independence? Tell that to the abandoned Irish in the six counties.
    All or nothing….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,734 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    In the 20th century far more people fleed from Ireland to the UK than from the UK to Ireland. And in the generations following independence, the % of Catholics in N.I. increased, while the % of Protestants in the 26 counties decreased. Two sides to the story. Sin sceil eile.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,817 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    They emigrated due to poverty, unemployment, etc. but to describe them as having "fleed" is misrepresenting the facts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53 ✭✭Widye


    If it wasn't for the EU Ireland would be back in the UK. This country needs a sugar daddy to be 'independent'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,425 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Ireland is the 'EU'.

    Another underinformed comment showing the poster doesn't know what they are talking about. BTW the British and others have also needed a 'sugar daddy' at times too. Look it up. Inform yourself.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,734 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    The British were the second biggest net contributors to the EU. That is one of the reasons why a lot of people there voted to leave the EU , as overall they felt they were not getting value for money for all the money they put and were putting in to Europe etc etc.

    Meanwhile the boats are fleeing the EU for Britain (and sometimes on to Ireland), even though they know it is risky and some people pay with their lives / drown.

    The UK is paying France hundreds of millions of pounds to stop the boats leaving the French coast but, so far this year, the numbers of migrants arriving in the UK this way - most of whom go on to claim asylum - have reached record levels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,425 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Is there a point here?

    I will remind you, (as the British were tragically reminded when it was too late and now have majority Brexit regret) the UK got almost as much out of the EU as they put in. Even the Queen benefited from it.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,817 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The British were the second biggest net contributors to the EU. That is one of the reasons why a lot of people there voted to leave the EU , as overall they felt they were not getting value for money for all the money they put and were putting in to Europe etc etc.

    Firstly, the British also benefitted by being members of the EU - something the likes of Farage never mentioned. Heck, the British government generally didn't mention this when you compare how the likes of Ireland displayed it's EU benefits with pride e.g.

    image.png


    As for what the people voted for - value for money was not something that was discussed in any meaningful way and for many they voted for false promises after being fed misinformation by the leave side.

    Meanwhile the boats are fleeing the EU for Britain (and sometimes on to Ireland), even though they know it is risky and some people pay with their lives / drown.

    ok - can you tell us why they are fleeing the EU because this is not true!

    The UK is paying France hundreds of millions of pounds to stop the boats leaving the French coast but, so far this year, the numbers of migrants arriving in the UK this way - most of whom go on to claim asylum - have reached record levels.

    What agreement has the British paying the French to stop boats leaving the French coast? A link to it would be helpful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,734 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I said the UK were the second biggest net contributors to the EEC / EU : do you not know what "net" means?

    As regards "The UK is paying France hundreds of millions of pounds to stop the boats leaving the French coast but, so far this year, the numbers of migrants arriving in the UK this way - most of whom go on to claim asylum - have reached record levels.", this exact quote is taken from the BBC article below:



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,817 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I said the UK were the second biggest net contributors to the EEC / EU : do you not know what "net" means?

    I do know what it means and I've read the HMG's 2022 document on the UKs contribution to the EU budget which describes them as net contributors.
    My point was that you are completely ignoring the benefits the UK got from being a member of the EU, the increased sales, the cheaper trading costs due to less barriers to trade and so on.

    In fact, HMG's document states:

    The net contribution doesn’t measure the overall economic benefit/cost of EU membership
    The UK's net contribution shouldn’t be confused with an assessment of the overall economic benefit, or cost, to the UK of EU membership. The net contribution simply looks at the direct flows of contributions to the EU Budget from the UK and spending, or receipts, from the EU to the UK. It doesn’t, for instance, consider benefits to UK businesses from being in the EU’s single market. Several bodies have attempted an economic cost-benefit analysis of the UK’s EU membership, some of which are discussed in section 6 of the Library’s briefing In brief: UK-EU economic relations

    As regards "The UK is paying France hundreds of millions of pounds to stop the boats leaving the French coast but, so far this year, the numbers of migrants arriving in the UK this way - most of whom go on to claim asylum - have reached record levels.", this exact quote is taken from the BBC article below:

    As I asked, can you link to the actual agreement please rather that a BBC opinion article?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,734 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I mentioned that the UK were net contributors to the EEC / EU funds. In other words, in financial terms, they paid in more to EEC / EU funds than they got out. That is a fact, not an opinion.

    The argument about the benefits the UK got from being a member of the EU, the increased or decreased sales, the affect on its domestic manufacturing , the cheaper trading costs due to less barriers to trade and so on is a different debate.

    The BBC reported "The UK is paying France hundreds of millions of pounds to stop the boats leaving the French coast" as a fact, not as an opinion. Do you think the BBC does not check what it presents as facts?

    If you do not know anything about French / UK relations, google is your friend:

    "

    Under a three-year deal made in March 2023, the UK agreed to provide €541 million (around £476 million at the time of the agreement) between 2023/24 and 2025/26. France agreed to make an unspecified “substantial and continuing” contribution".

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9681/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,425 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The argument about the benefits the UK got from being a member of the EU, the increased or decreased sales, the affect on its domestic manufacturing , the cheaper trading costs due to less barriers to trade and so on is a different debate.

    It's not a 'different debate', it's an uncomfortable fact you don't want to admit or discuss. Ask any of the majority of British people experiencing 'Brexit Regret'.

    image.png

    *Ask Gerry Adams about the BBC and 'facts'. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,734 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    The same Gerry Adams who says he was never in the IRA even though most Irish people think he was? You think other Republicans, the Gardai, UK security forces, the intelligence services etc were all wrong in their opinion that he was?

    Of course Adams choose Dublin as the place to sue the BBC.

    Brexit was an example of a slight majority of people voting for a nice fluffy idea … a United Kingdom as some there hoped for without having to pay many billions in to EU funds, without EU red tape, without mass immigration etc. Their nice fluffy idea was s*ite, a bit like the nice fluffy idea of a U.I.

    Post edited by Francis McM on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,425 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Thinking something doesn't make it a fact Francis. Ask the Beeb.



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