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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    😀 It's very true though!

    In 2009 O'Driscoll won a Grand Slam for Ireland, was joint top try scorer in that tournament with 4 tries (including crucial tries against England, France and Wales in the GS decider), and won a European Cup with Leinster (scoring 5 tries throughout the tournament).

    He was Player of the Tournament for the 6 Nations. He also was immense for the Lions that summer in South Africa.

    However, if he'd lost out to the incredible Fourie du Preez, who also won everything that year (Super Rugby title with the Bulls, Tri Nations with South Africa and a Lions series), I'd have been fine with that.

    But Richie McCaw in 2009 strained the medial ligament in his knee in March and missed a chunk of the Super Rugby season, and did another knee injury in May 2009 where he missed another chunk of time (missing summer test matches). It was a poor season for both the Crusaders and the All Blacks - NZ lost 3 games in the Tri Nations.

    It was daylight robbery that he won that award that year.

    Post edited by Podge_irl on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,030 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    I said I'm not getting into the Wood/Sheehan thing. I just very much disagree that the wins against Wales and Scotland came during a period when "we were clearly the better side". You've mentioned five years there where we were very poor, and four years where we weren't.

    As you say, this debate is a sideshow, so we can leave it there, as I don't really care about the main argument or think it can be proven one way or another.

    Post edited by Podge_irl on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Yeah, but to be clear - when they were clearly better we weren't winning against them, and all of his wins against them came in an era when we were clearly better than them and finishing 2nd or 3rd every season. There's no disputing they were better from 1994-1998, but his first wins against either of them only came post that era.

    Post edited by Podge_irl on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,949 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Not a hill I'm going to die on, but we beat Wales in 99 and they still managed to finish ahead of us... And one man's "knocked on QF of RWC, beat no one of consequence" is another man's "beaten by the eventual winners", depends how you want to frame things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,421 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Genuinely would be raging if I was VdF, Farrell telling him he's the worst backrow player on tour, besides a 1 cap Pollock. **** all the way off. Be hard to have any faith in him after that in a green shirt.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,755 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Be hard to have any faith in him after that in a green shirt.


    Can you explain that please?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,421 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Farrell said he'd pick on form. Josh was one of the best performing players in the warm ups, and gets zero caps. A mediocrity like Earl makes the bench ahead of him. Fairly massive rebuke for Josh



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,755 ✭✭✭OldRio


    OK. I get that but what do you mean by Be hard to have any faith in him after that in a green shirt.
    ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    TBF to Farrell, most of his big selection calls have been fully vindicated.

    There was plenty of consternation about the flankers selected for the first test but both produced stellar performances.

    He backed Joe McCarthy to start the first test and he produced a great performance.

    All of the bench players introduced last week brought good impact.

    I'd love to have seen Josh win some test caps, but it's hard to argue with a winning tour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,421 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Faith in Farrell's word, faith that he can get treated fairly. Obviously it's a perspective from the outside, but I can't see the justification based on performances on the pitch



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,421 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    For sure, the lions won, which is all Farrell will care about ultimately. I think Josh would have been able to deliver a similar or better performance than Curry or Morgan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,755 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Well I think JvDF is a bigger man than that.

    I would have picked him but.........



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,894 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Curry has completely vindicated Farrell with his performances, and clearly he was doing something to earn the selection in the first place, so I'm not sure what the beef is.

    VDF is 32 years old, he's not going to take his ball and go home.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I don't necessarily read it as a negative reflection on Josh, just the three of them have slightly different skillsets. Curry brings the most physicality of the three, Morgan is the best on the deck generally, and Josh is the better link player in wide channels and brings good carrying.

    I think for the sort of challenge Australia were presenting, and the gameplan Farrell wanted to put in place I think he saw Curry as the best fit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,421 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Certainly seems Farrell had Curry picked in his team from the jump, because it certainly couldn't have been based on his efforts in the warm ups. Why even bring Josh, if he felt he didn't suit the game he wanted the Lions to play.

    Overreacting probably, but I think it's a pretty stunning snub of one of the best backrow players in the game



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,290 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    TBH I actually thought FDP should have won it in 2009. Easily best player in the world.

    I think BOD being on the losing end of the 2 Lions tests he played possibly counted against him and he didn't stand out that much in those games. Good but not great. In one of the AB losses to Aus that year, Richie was head and shoulders above every player on the field despite losing.

    Also, club matches aren't counted for the WPOTY.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Yeah, but i think that's pretty silly about club games not being a factor.

    I'm not taking anything away from McCaw, he's one of the very best to ever play the game (second only to Dan Carter in my estimation), but he didn't deserve that award in 2009. He had a fairly modest year by his standards in an All Blacks side that had a poor year by their standards.

    It's a highly flawed award though in other ways, with a little bit too much subjectivity in judging. The fact that no prop has ever even been nominated out of the 117 players nominated over the past 24 years says a lot.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,385 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I think BOD being on the losing end of the 2 Lions tests he played possibly counted against him and he didn't stand out that much in those games

    That isn't my memory of those games? Him and Roberts were an outstanding centre partnership on that tour no?

    Would be typical if playing with ROG counted against him though 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,290 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Agreed. Except I'd have McCaw ahead of Carter. Forwards are better than backs 🤣

    Its disgraceful that no prop has ever won!! Justice for Tony Woodcock!! I think PSDT was the first blindside to win it. Has a midfielder ever won it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    I don't think Farrell is in the business of handing out pity caps. I guess cohesion picks isn't enough to swing it this time..



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,196 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,421 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Keith Earls' hundredth cap or Healy getting the record would suggest otherwise. Guess he just doesn't like the cut of Josh's jib



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Maybe Josh was late to training or something. I'm sure the story will come out in a few years..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    No prop ever even nominated, never mind win!

    No, no centre has ever won it, and no full back or prop.

    It's been dominated by out halves and opensides: they've won 14 awards out of 23 (60%) with 7 wins each (I'm classifying Dusautoir and Burger as opensides here), and of that, McCaw and Carter account for 6 of them.

    Outside of that - one lock (Retallick), one No 8 (Read) (this one surprised me), 2 wingers (Habana and Shane Williams) and two scrum halves (Galthie and Dupont). Keith Wood the only front row player to ever win it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭almostover


    As a Munster fan I've never been a fan of Tom Aherne at 6. He's a LH lock and needs to be kept there going forward. Would love to see himself and Edogbo take over from Beirne and Kleyn as our engine room going forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,949 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Drico's gonna have to own this one himself, I reckon. Tho it would make Woody's achievement all the more impressive tbh….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭typhoony


    Has the draw for the pools in 2027 RWC been made



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,290 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    I think Beudan was playing quite a bit at fullback the year he won it so I'm counting that. I thought Etzebeth had won it once. He should have!Thought Furlong would have been nominated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,949 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Agreed on McCaw ahead of Carter. Curious on your thoughts on Dusatoir getting the 2011 award tho, YR? It's a hill I will die on that he deserved it that year. (Tho ye were probably happy enough to console yerselves with RWC all the same? :D)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,290 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    It obviously should have gone to Stephen Donald in 2011. Can't believe he didn't win 😆 No real issue with Dusatoir winning it. He dragged that French team kicking and screaming into the final. The player I thought should have won it was Kaino. He was immense for the ABs that season and especially in the RWC.



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