Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

@FtD v2

During Wood's career, Wales and Scotland were not the "usual suspects". Both won a 5 Nations while Wood was playing - Ireland's last win had been in the Sxities.

Not trying to make a wider point about your discussion, but both teams were comfortably better than us and dismissing wins against them is just ignoring the context of the day.

I remember being utterly delighted that Italy were joining to make it the Six Nations, because then we might not get the wooden spoon every year.

And where did Ireland come all those years, for context?

In fact - I'll answer myself.

When we beat Wales in 99, we came a spot below them, in fourth. France, a team against whom a win would count, came last. We came ahead of them on points difference. Wales was our only win.

We were a "middling" team as well.

Wales won a 5 Nations in 1994, Scotland won a 5 Nations in 1999.

Ireland won zero. They wouldn't win a Six Nations until after Wood had retired, in 2009.

I'd say during Wood's career, Ireland was consistently an also-ran against whom wins against Wales and Scotland counted for something.

Ireland had an abject run from 1994-1999, finishing 4th (1994 & 1995) and then 5th (1996-1998), and 4th again in 1999. Scotland & Wales finished ahead of us most of those years. Exceptions being: Wales finished 5th in 1995, Scotland finished 5th in 1994 etc.

From 2000-2003 Ireland finished 2nd twice ('01 & '03) and 3rd twice ('00 and '02) - finishing ahead of Wales & Scotland in all of those years.

This is all a sideshow though tbh, and distracting from my main point. I'm not disputing Ireland were utterly **** in this era. I'm not disputing, for the most part, that Scotland and Wales were better than us (for the beginning of Wood's era, they were worse by the latter half).

The point originally made was:

Wood carried a bad team to wins. Sheehan has never had to carry a team to a win.

I don't think this is hugely relevant or true as it happens. As I pointed out, he didn't win very many games at all, and 60% of his wins came against USA, Japan, Tonga, Italy, Romania, Namibia, Samoa, Russia.

Even his wins against Scotland and Wales came in the era where we were clearly the better side and comfortably finishing ahead of them year over year in the 6 Nations.

I said I'm not getting into the Wood/Sheehan thing. I just very much disagree that the wins against Wales and Scotland came during a period when "we were clearly the better side". You've mentioned five years there where we were very poor, and four years where we weren't.

As you say, this debate is a sideshow, so we can leave it there, as I don't really care about the main argument or think it can be proven one way or another.

Not a hill I'm going to die on, but we beat Wales in 99 and they still managed to finish ahead of us... And one man's "knocked on QF of RWC, beat no one of consequence" is another man's "beaten by the eventual winners", depends how you want to frame things.

Be hard to have any faith in him after that in a green shirt.


Can you explain that please?

OK. I get that but what do you mean by Be hard to have any faith in him after that in a green shirt.
?

Well I think JvDF is a bigger man than that.

I would have picked him but.........

I don't necessarily read it as a negative reflection on Josh, just the three of them have slightly different skillsets. Curry brings the most physicality of the three, Morgan is the best on the deck generally, and Josh is the better link player in wide channels and brings good carrying.

I think for the sort of challenge Australia were presenting, and the gameplan Farrell wanted to put in place I think he saw Curry as the best fit.

TBH I actually thought FDP should have won it in 2009. Easily best player in the world.

I think BOD being on the losing end of the 2 Lions tests he played possibly counted against him and he didn't stand out that much in those games. Good but not great. In one of the AB losses to Aus that year, Richie was head and shoulders above every player on the field despite losing.

Also, club matches aren't counted for the WPOTY.

I don't think Farrell is in the business of handing out pity caps. I guess cohesion picks isn't enough to swing it this time..