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Presidential Election 2025

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,451 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Have you read all of her public comments on Ukraine? Were you motivated at all to contact her for clarification before her Presidential candidacy came up?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,387 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I've read the comments she had made in the Dail. If you have any others for review, do share.

    She's not in my constituency as a TD. She is standing now as a national candidate so she has 'hoved' herself into the spotlight.

    Do you contact many politicians with questions like this?
    How did you get on?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,641 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It isn't up to her to come up with 'what Ukraine should do'.
    It is up to her when in the Dáil to question and debate what we are doing/not doing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,387 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The same cop out answer. She's calling on Ukraine to cease fire. That's her telling Ukraine what to do.

    Either she's involving herself or she is not.

    The question was posed to her in the context of assistance from Ireland to Ukraine and why it was important.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,641 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Like I asked blanch, are you sure you know the difference between 'a ceasefire in Ukraine' and a call for 'Ukraine to ceasefire' because the second one would certainly be used by somebody trying to depict someone as a Russian stooge.

    Without waffle or moving the goalposts can you show Catherine Connolly calling on 'Ukraine to ceasefire'?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,387 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    If she's calling for a ceasefire in Ukraine, implicitly that is her calling out to the participants, Ukraine & Russia what they should do.
    But according to you, It isn't up to her to come up with 'what Ukraine should do'.

    Goal posts moved much?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,641 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




    The Dáil in which she sits is involved with Ukraine, Gaza, etc etc. She has every right to comment on what we should be doing and calling for in relation to anything this government decides to involve itself in.
    There is no legal requirement to conform to the consensus in any democratic parliament anywhere in the world. How do you not know this?

    She has called for a ceasefire IN Ukraine. She has not called on 'Ukraine to ceasefire' which was just more of your slanting/spinning to vilify.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,028 ✭✭✭✭Seathrun66


    Where did Catherine Connolly state that Ukraine should surrender? Do you have any quote, accredited source or reportage saying this? If not then I hope an apology is forthcoming for stating falsehoods.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,387 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Calling for a ceasefire in Ukraine is implicitly calling on Ukraine to ceasefire.
    You can't have a ceasefire if only one side stops firing can you?
    So either she is making public comments on what the participants in the conflict should do, or she is not?
    So the question put to her by Michael Martin was entirely reasonable in the context of the debate and why Ireland was assisting Ukraine.

    And not for the first time on the thread you are confusing her right to comment to also have a freedom from criticism and counter comment. We as voters have the right to subject those comments to scrutiny and comment on them.
    Should I also add… "How do you not know this?"

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,028 ✭✭✭✭Seathrun66


    @odyssey06 Catherine Connolly has stated she is against the Russian invasion and has called for a ceasefire and negotiations.

    Catherine Connolly has stated that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza and is in favour of a ceasefire and negotiations.

    She wishes to see an end to both conflicts. No more falsehoods about her calling for a Ukrainian surrender unless you have an accredited source for this. It's your prerogative to dislike her, but not to spread lies to justify that aversion.

    Mod: warning given

    Post edited by Seth Brundle on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,641 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Calling for a ceasefire in Ukraine is implicitly calling on Ukraine to ceasefire.

    No it isn't. The war is IN Ukraine.
    If it was implicit why did you feel the need to alter it to 'calling on Ukraine to ceasefire'.

    Posters of a certain ideology do this kind of 'altering' all the time in order to get a slant.

    I have zero issue with scrutinising her, I do have issue with inventing or slanting things in order to vilify her. You are not the only poster doing this, but you certainly are the most blatant and persistent one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,387 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    She wishes to see an end to the conflict. Gosh, what a novel position.
    As if nobody looking at the conflict thought of that before!

    You know, maybe the situation is a bit more complex than that and the reason there hasn't been a ceasefire and negotiations is that Russia has made it clear it seeks to hold territory taken in the illegal invasion and Ukraine rightly objects to that.
    And even when Ukraine makes an offer, it is met with more war crimes and indiscriminate mass attacks on civilian targets.
    So what does she expect Ukraine to do?

    So calling for a ceasefire without acknowledging that, as if the onus is on Ukraine and Russia equally - is calling for Ukraine to surrender to (illegal) Russian demands.

    She is also on record as critical of NATO's role, as if Ukraine without outside assistance could have maintained its sovereignty in the face of a revanchist Russia. We see the fate of Belarus as an example had Ukraine not resisted Russian domination. She is critical of EU plans to boost military capacity, to protect its own vulnerable members and supply military assistance to Ukraine in resisting an illegal invasion. She offers no alternative just hand wringing about a military industrial complex…
    So the consequence of her statements, implicitly, offers no other option to the Latvias, Ukraines of this world than surrender to Russian re-domination.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,451 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I contact lots of politicians about lots of issues that concern me.

    I don't pretend to be concerned about issues at a later stage, when I want to use 'what the politician didn't say' as a stick to beat them with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,028 ✭✭✭✭Seathrun66


    You said she called for a Ukrainian surrender. Furnish us with the source please.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,387 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    What I said was: Her call for a 'ceasefire' was just a call for surrender to Russian demands.

    And I have explained the basis for that statement in previous post.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,641 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It wasn't.

    You have had to alter what she says to get to that still dubious assessment.

    Calling for a 'ceasefire IN Ukraine' is not the same as a calling 'for Ukraine to ceasefire'.

    You are spinning to vilify and that is shameful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,387 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    You are now 'spinning' because the contradiction in her position and your defence of her has been exposed.

    How do you have a ceasefire in Ukraine unless Ukraine ceases firing?
    Obviously, patently obviously - that is her calling out to the participants in the conflict, Ukraine and Russia, what they should do.
    I have already posted that on the thread, any further bad faith ignoring of that will not be engaged with.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I am not changing any goalposts, just pointing out the inconsistency and hypocrisy in CC's "principled" positions.

    Here is another one. I have heard her call for Israeli settlements in the West Bank to stop, but I have never heard her take a position on the Russians handing back territory taken from Ukraine.

    She will want Israel to respect 1967 borders without demanding that Russia respect 2010 borders. Simple hypocrisy again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,451 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It's very obvious how far you have to exaggerate her actual words to find something that you can actually complain about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,641 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Do you know what a 'ceasefire IN Ukraine' entails?

    There are two sides 'firing' IN Ukraine.

    Therefore a 'cease' - 'fire' would be BOTH sides ceasing fire.

    Nobody, only you on your ceaseless attempts to vilify has suggested only 'one' side 'ceases'.





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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,641 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If you consistently call something 'illegal' an 'wrong' and it's leader a 'dictator' who has done horrendous things, can you imply from that, that the speaker would want that leader to undo the illegal thing, to not be a dictator and to stop doing horrendous things and face retribution for those horrendous things?

    As the masters of implications and between the lines reading, what would you and Oddessy imply?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,506 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    She is incredibly opposed to the only way to get Russia to stop. Constantly rails against it.

    Her position is to ask Russia to stop and if and when they wont to watch Ukraine collapse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,641 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,506 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Make Russia stop with sheer force of arms. As has been abundantly clear to anyone paying even the slightest bit of attention for 3 years now. She lives in a fantasy world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,451 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Speaking of fantasy worlds, how's that 'only way' working out?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,641 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I remember being told on a Ukraine thread that sanctions would bring Russia to it's knees and the war would be over in a year, that was just after the second invasion.

    So if the 'only way' is sheer force of arms why the back and forth on a ceasefire and negotiations?

    By the way, some of us have been paying attention a while longer than 2020 and remember 2014.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,511 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Newstalk after 5pm - Catherine Connolly outlines why she wants the Áras



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,506 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    By the way, some of us have been paying attention a while longer than 2020 and remember 2014.

    Good for you. Then clearly you know her proposal has been tried, failed and is never going to work.

    I am more than happy to call out the egregiously crap response in 2014. The idea that CC would have advocated anything different is a joke though.

    It is having a lot better impact than phone calls and pleas for peace.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,451 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,641 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    and is never going to work

    That remains to be seen.
    My father, a Fermanagh man sadly died believing that there would 'never' be peace in NI.
    Thankfully he was wrong.



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