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Presidential Election 2025

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,349 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Who doesn't like her? You running away with a ball again blanch.
    My first comment on her was: 'This would be a smart move for FF'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    That is so vague a statement as to be meaningless. Blame is shared. Equally?
    How much 'blame' attaches to Ukraine versus Russia then, and where does she delineate this?
    How much 'blame' attached to Poland versus Nazi Germany?
    It's just an excuse for the typical both sides false equivalences we see from the likes of Daly.
    That is not speaking truth.

    Does she support Ukraine's right to resist the Russian invasion?
    She may think the Russian invasion is 'illegal' - where does should validate Ukraine's legal right to resist that invasion?
    Where does she without reservation condemn Russia? Without undermining it with the usual guff?
    Can you find me that quote?
    Or do we just get the usual weasel words, condemning 'war' in the abstract without clearly assigning the culpability where it lies.

    In the absence of that quote, based on the quotes I've seen, and her full support for Daly, is in the same camp. The strongest words of criticism will be reserved for the West \ NATO not the actual perpetrators of the war crimes ie Russia.

    She gives speeches and supports policies the result of which would leave Ireland and Europe with weak military capability.

    If Ireland was invaded, and our army fought back instead of surrendering, would blame attach to us for fighting back with that army?

    When she talks of stopping wars, she seems to mean surrender to aggression. She wants an Ireland and Europe incapable of defending itself against aggression.

    Nothing is likely to engender more aggression than to be defenceless against threats.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,384 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yes, she is frequently very good at saying the right thing first just to change tack to a rant about the West and the arms industries.

    It is not that is makes no sense to me, it is that it makes no sense full stop. It basically boils down to her thinking that "army" is some kind of bad word. On top of which, it is simply factually incorrect - we very much have an army and one that has been involved in combat abroad. Albeit it is in a pretty shoddy state at the moment and needs significant investment that will involve buying things from those nefarious arms manufacturers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,595 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Article 13.4 of the Constitution:

    "4 The supreme command of the Defence Forces is hereby vested in the President."

    We cannot have as President someone who believes in the abolition of the Defence Forces. She is manifestly unsuitable for the role.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    Was he the Barrister for the Garda Whistle blower. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30852077.html#:~:text=2018%20%2D%2019%3A44-,Sergeant%20Maurice%20McCabe%20was%20entitled%20to%20be%20vindicated%20as%20truthful,McDowell%20SC%20told%20the%20tribunal.

    and so it is political, and you provide any back up to reaction of the legal profess when he was minister? Since we are at that point. (Though honestly I will take your word for it).

    I am sure Helen McEntee would be a wonderful president when the time comes.

    Link working perfectly fine,

    https://rts.org.uk/event/gay-byrne-memorial-lecture-who-can-we-trust
    

    You can trust my view on her speech or not.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,349 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I have major issue with the 'arms industry' and what they do. No surprise that the biggest ones are in the aggressive players in world conflicts/wars.

    I also think the leaders of the West have a share of the blame in conflicts/wars too.

    I think distinguishing an 'army' from a 'defence force' to make a point about being part of a military alliance, isn't a huge crime even if it is easy fodder for her critics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,349 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Away you go again:

    That is so vague a statement as to be meaningless. Blame is shared. Equally?


    I never said anything about 'equally'.
    If you want to ignore NATO encroachment in the lead up to Ukraine, that is up to you.
    I unequivocally blame the Russians for invading, I didn't then turn a blind eye and run to Moscow glad handing them looking for support or to continue to look the other way until, emboldened they made a full invasion.
    Re: Poland and the Nazi's, I didn't spend the 30's turning a blind eye to Germany rebuilding it's war machine either.
    I don't advocate arming any of these aggressors.

    There is blame to be shared for the outbreak of most conflict/war in the history of the planet. Credible historians will look at why they happen, politicians invariably don't.

    And we need people in a democracy to speak truth to the idea that their may be blame and that there may be a better way. Especially in one that is supposedly neutral.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    You never said it wasn't shared equally. Your sentence as worded was meaningless nonsense. It's up there with "two sides to every story". So my point stands.

    I did not ignore NATO's role, I fully justified it with reference to the NATO Russia Founding Act and the Budapest Agreement. There was no 'encroachment', NATO and Ukraine were conducting themselves fully within the bounds of those agreements signed with Russia.

    I have no idea what point you think you are trying to make about 'glad handing'.

    If the likes of Poland the Baltic States hadn't joined NATO, it is clear they would have undergone the same process of attempted Russian domination through corruption, bribery, threats, 'little green men' covert invasions and open aggression if it came to that. And they are fellow EU member states with Ireland, which is why European re-armament is important not just for aiding Ukraine.

    I don't see any evidence that Connolly unequivocally blames Russia for the invasion.

    The claim under discussion was whether Connolly was out of step with the electorate.

    She tries to hide it with weasel words as Daly did, condemning 'invasion' and 'war' in the abstract. People hear that and think she is unequivocally blaming Russia and on board with support Ukraine. But in reality she is not.

    And given Daly and Wallace lost their seat and hold similar position - I would argue she is out of step with the Irish electorate which is why it is important to point out her equivocations.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,349 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I am not, most definitely not getting into a debate on Nato, The West and all that stuff.

    The debate is about a person's rights to make a point about their stance and their own ethos and fears and point of view.

    Connolly has that right as much as you have or Coveney or Harris or Martin or Trump or Putin.

    The talk about excluding people because they have a different POV is scary really and it's not the first time we have listened to it.

    Catherine Connolly is an elected TD, her voice therefore has a right to be heard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    She doesn't have the 'right' to automatically stand for election as President (and Commander in Chief) if she has made statements which cast doubt on her ability to carry out that role as per the Constitution. That applies not just to her but others putting themselves forward. The Oireachtas and county councils are fully entitled in that situation to refuse to endorse a candidate.

    She doesn't have the 'right' to equivocate between the victims of invasion and the aggressors and not be called out on it.

    Her voice is being heard, and people who don't like what they are hearing are entitled to call out her equivocations.

    And in the context of a Presidential election, and threats by Russia to EU member states, her public opposition to European re-armament, this is an election issue. If elected, she would be representing Ireland to the rest of the EU and the world.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,384 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The debate is about a person's rights to make a point about their stance and their own ethos and fears and point of view.

    No it isn't. You are completely distorting this. No one is trying to silence her, they are judging her. Which is what electorates are supposed to do with candidates.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,349 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    She does have the right.

    Your opinion of her carries zero weight past your vote. You may need to address your authoritarianism btw, sounds a bit dictatory,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,857 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    "When she talks of stopping wars, she seems to mean surrender to aggression. She wants an Ireland and Europe incapable of defending itself against aggression."

    I don't suppose there's any vague possibility that we could agree that when people make claims like this, they could come with directly quoted words from the person concerned to support their claims?
    It would save so much time over the coming months.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,349 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Somebody has just said, she has no right to stand because essentially their argument is different to hers. That is exclusionary talk.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,595 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    She has a right to be heard, and from we have heard, she is a Russian sycophant, pandering to the lies that NATO was responsible for Russia invading Ukraine, but also holding views that Ireland doesn't need an Army.

    If she wants to clarify, over to her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,719 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Such a childish, naieve outlook on politics. Unfortunately there are countries in the world like Russia, China, Iran, North Korea who are more aggressive and less democratic than would be wished for.

    I suppose if you lived in the 1930s you, as a SF supporter, would have had an issue with the leaders of the West like UK and USA being armed too, and you still never condemned the extremist Republican Sean Russell going to Germany to attempt to collaborate with them during WW2, when millions were being rounded up and shoved in to gas chambers. You are a great one to talk about "distinguishing an 'army' from a defence force" when you think unelected terrorists, with no mandate from a government anywhere, could call themselves an army!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Nobody has the right to stand automatically, unless they are already President.

    They need an endorsement of the Oireachtas or county councils.
    Who are fully entitled as per their role to reject a candidate.
    Not because their argument is different, but because it is incompatible with proper execution of the role.

    So do you think the Constitution is a 'bit dictatory' and authoritarian?
    Or maybe you took that up wrong.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,349 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So you are stepping away from this then? *bolding mine

    She doesn't have the 'right' to automatically stand for election as President (and Commander in Chief) if she has made statements which cast doubt on her ability to carry out that role as per the Constitution.

    Connolly has already been nominated. There are no 'if's'.

    She has the right to stand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Not stepping away from anything. She never had the right automatically to stand.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,349 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It's my interpretation of her public statements, which is a reasonable opinion for me to form based on what she has said and what she has not said. And very often with politicians it is what they do not say on a topic that is key.
    This is not a subject on which she has been silent. I have not invented this out of nowhere.

    "Europe is in the middle of, with a European Defence Fund, a European Defence Agency and Partnership for Peace, which is a travesty of the English language because it is a partnership for war."

    This is her public statement, already cited on the thread today, of the very reasonable reactive steps Europe is taking to assist Ukraine and re-arm itself in the face of Russian aggression and threats.
    Where did she defend the legitimate basis for European armies to exist and be ready and capable to defend it?

    She talked of a 'ceasefire' in Ukraine. Where did she call for Russia to withdraw from territories it illegally occupied?
    Where did she call for concessions from Russia?
    Where did she vindicate Ukraine's legitimate right to defend itself against Russian invasion and for its sovereignty and territory to be respected?
    Or Ukraine's right to associate with the EU and be assisted by allies?

    So when she talks of ceasefire, what she means is surrender to the demands of the aggressor nation Russia.

    But if someone has quotes to contrary, do share.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,349 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Simply put, she has called out Putin, called out it's invasion as illegal and has said that we should call out Russia and also call out countries in the west like the US and Britain for they have done and not done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    So just the typical both sides false equivalences, with zero consequences for Putin, and criticising those who try to assist Ukraine to defend itself and repel the Russian invasion.

    All I read in a recent speech on the subject as below is waffle about 'speaking truth to power' and every criticism of Russia balanced by another of "England and France". As if they are equally at fault. As if 'speaking truth to power' will dislodge a single Russian invader.

    Where is her support for concrete military assistance from EU \ EU countries to Ukraine?
    Or at least acceptance that it is valid for the EU and democracies like the UK, Canada, Australia to assist Ukraine with weapons to defend itself?
    Even Ireland does not contribute directly.

    Where is her support for Ukraine's right to militarily resist Russia's illegal invasion?

    How does she imagine Ukraine can resist this illegal invasion, with no outside help?

    Instead we get typical both sides false equivalences eg "I have a huge problem with the EU."

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2025-02-26/28/

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,645 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Anyone bleating about “NATO encroachment” is simply parroting Russian propaganda.


    They are complaining about the sovereign and democratic governments of the like of Poland deciding to join an alliance because they heel threatened by Russia (having spent almost half of the previous century occupied and oppressed by Russian forces).

    NATO hasn’t invaded any of these countries, or forcibly established bases there. Those countries have exercised their sovereign right to join whatever alliances they choose (and which are willing to accept them).

    Connolly, Daly, Wallace, and any other propagandists who complain citing “NATO encroachment” are simply complaining about countries making sovereign decisions about who they want to align themselves with. They want Putin to be allowed to dictate the foreign policy of sovereign nations, instead of those nations being free to decide for themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,349 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So just the typical both sides false equivalences,

    'False' is your opinion.

    Why would somebody who passionately believes in our military neutrality, who is against wars and killings - whosever carries it out, have to be heard supporting more killing and conflict?

    She has called for ceasefire in Ukraine and has not encouraged any side nor supported efforts to keep the war going. She believes in a negotiated settlement.
    She may be wrong in your opinion, but she has every right to say it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,645 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    So she favours rewarding the aggressor, and creating incentives for them to invade again in the future when they can be sure of a cadre of useful idiots to argue for hamstringing the defence of whomever Vladimir sets his sights on that time



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I backed up my opinion with reference to the content of her speech.

    Does she believe in a negotiated settlement? That's your opinion backed up by nothing.

    She has not encouraged any side - your statement.
    So she hasn't encouraged either Ukraine's legitimate efforts to resist this illegal invasion. Or assistance from friendly powers to Ukraine to do so.

    How do you imagine, seeing as you are speaking for her, that Russia would have any reason to accept this ceasefire or to reduce its demands… how does she imagine Ukraine without outside assistance could withstand collapse? And in that situation why would Russia have any reason to negotiate rather than demand surrender?

    She's "against wars and killings". That appears to draw no distinction between Ukraine's legitimate right to defend itself against illegal Russian invasion, and kill the invaders occupying its sovereign territory VERSUS for example civilians being killed by indiscriminate Russian attacks.

    So as I said, these are statements of both sides false equivalences and your attempted defence of her position reinforces that point.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,349 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The aggressor was rewarded after first invading in 2014 by those now keen to disassociate themselves.

    There is a long line of people and countries to blame for that rewarding/blind eye/self interest before Catherine Connolly hoves into view to be honest.

    Connolly's motivations for speaking out have always been clear to me, human rights and the suffering caused by conflict/war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,349 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Is it your belief that every elected representative must conform to a consensus?

    You don't agree with her, I get that. She has expressed her views. The nonsense that 'she has not said what I want her to say', is just that, nonsense. You can't organise witch hunts on that basis, this is a democracy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    And Hitler was rewarded for aggression in 1938, a debatable decision at the time but it would have been an even bigger mistake to continue down the same path because of misguided past decisions.

    Catherine Connolly is the one standing for election as President, who will represent us abroad, who is making public comments about the EU and Irish attempts to re-arm and protect their citizens, making public comments about a major issue i.e. the invasion of Ukraine by Russia. She has hoved herself into view.

    And the consequences of her 'worldview' for want of a better word, in my opinion, will be more suffering, more conflict, more war, more human rights abuses. And I am using the platform of this thread to point that out to potential voters and to alert them of the need to 'read between the lines' of her speeches. At first glance it appears to be in synch with the majority of the Irish electorate, but a closer reading of her statements is warranted.
    I say this based on the assumption majority of Irish people support initiatives from the EU and friendly powers to assist Ukraine's defence against Russian invasion, even if they have reservations about Ireland providing direct military aid.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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