Hamas strike on Israel

He did. I wouldn't disagree with any of that.

He was also on Sky News some time ago and was asked to comment on videos which appeared to show Israeli soliders committing war crimes. He said he could not make that determination based on videos without context. However in a previous interview about alleged Russian war crimes in Ukraine he had no such problem concluding Russia was likely committing war crimes based on videos Sky showed him. The surveillance flights over Gaza continue and the meeting with IDF officials continue in Whitehall. I am not giving him a free pass over any of this, but having said that it is a welcome step if Britain recognises a Palestinian state. I bet you won't see the Israelis having a whinge and withdrawing their Ambassador to the UK over it. The same with the French.

OK, these back and forths are getting silly, but i'll respond to a few points.

The IDF, should they attack UN peace keepers, should face the ramifications of their actions. Should the IDF be permitted to do as they wish against (the clue is in the name) the peacekeepers of the United Nations in which the are a member? Should they face no repercussions? That's what you're suggesting.

Not at all. I am saying who is going to dish out that repercussion? You? Ireland? The EU?

Are we going to send troops off to war with Israel to even up the game?

To enforce rules and laws you need to be willing to use force and violence if it comes to it. Is that what you are proposing? Words arent working..

Repeating it 5 times doesn't make a bad point any better. If I offer you a demonstrably bad deal and you don't take it, you aren't automatically the bad actor in the process. It's simplistic to suggest otherwise.

I note you don't fault Israel for any agreement proposals they don't readily agree to; why must it always be the interests of Israel that must be served.

If you offered the 1947 UN deal to Palestinians now, they would bite the hand off, same as in 1979 when peace plans between Israel and Egypt/Jordan offered a provision for a Palestinian state. Never mind in 2000 at Camp David when Arafat rejected a pretty decent offer.

All of these deals, in hindsight, were great deals.

At the time, the Anglo-Irish Treaty was a bad deal, but we made the best of it and built on it.
The GFA was Sunningdale for slow learners. It was a good thing the Provos accepted, given 9/11 happened soon after, and they would have been forever weakened.

At the end of the day, their refusal to budge and accept what was on offer has made the Palestinians weaker, not stronger. That is the fault of their corrupt leadership. They need to take that lesson on board.

Just because you don't have knowledge of something, doesn't make the reality false.

So you think the Israeli government deliberately sat on these intelligence reports, let the attack happen as some part of a grand plan.

It seems it's every man (woman and child) for themselves when you deem them not to be worthy of US/EU interests.

Not at all. Might is right when it comes to NATO, don't you agree? Tell me, what alliances and friends do the Palestinians have in the Arab world? Next to none. Jordan and Egypt at best dont like them, and at worst hate them. Iran just wants to use them in their grand regional game. Hezbollah the same, which are now weakened.

How did the West defeat Nazi Germany? Was it through strongly worded letters or by assembling an army to destroy National Socialism?

Hurting Israel economically and ceasing supply of their military equipment etc. could be done with the flick of a pen (you're strongly worded letter aside). Restrictions on Israeli movement and influence as a repercussion would hurt them without endangering lives. Sanctions can always be escalated.

Via who? The EU? The US?

What if they take a different view? What then? More strongly worded letters?

And why are they simply not being annihilated in such a manner that is consigned to history; the rule of international law and the globalised world in which they now operate. They simply know they could not survive.

Because while Israel will go beyond many Liberal Democracies in their attempt to destroy Hamas with the resultant collateral damage, they won't go out and kill 2 million people. The Israeli voter won't have it.

So they should just accept their lot and multiple generations accept that they are secondary to their neighbour? The fact you don't see that as problematic and bound to result in conflict is a blinkered viewpoint that is beyond reason.

No, they need to accept that they have lost this conflict and war. They need to turn away from violence, accept certain hard truths, and strive to nation-build, where the next generation of Palestinians and Israelis can finally get on and have peace. Or they can keep doing what they have been doing for the last few decades, sure, what could go wrong?

Hard power has multiple prongs; Ukraine being a case in point for this yet you don't want the same for Israel; you're content the Palestinians (not Hamas notably) are getting a harsh lesson. You're also content to ignore the multi-generational "harsh lessons" Israel have been dishing out to them which culminated in the attack of Oct'23.

I have no idea what you mean. Putin is getting a lesson in hard power via NATO arm supplies to Ukraine and the brave Ukrainians fighting for their nation. THAT is hard power in action. Something I presume you support.

The Palestinians dont have that power, anymore anyway. You said yourself the conflict is one-sided, but you want them to continue to fight on… you want them to die for some idealism.

As a gaeilgeoir I've often said Eire. I've no idea what you guys are debating as I've not read the posts but people definitely throw in cupla focal here and there. Nothing weird about it.

You say Hamas and Iran were stupid for approving the attack on October 7th. I'll counter that Bibi and the Zionists Nazi's were a thousand times more stupid to flatten Gaza and commit genocide. They have put Israel very existence in danger. They have shown in Iran that they can target people precisely. No such attempt was made in Gaza. Their is no excuse for what Israel has done to Gaza or the Gazans.

I did, nothing came up with the execution of those 3 IDF personnel or the executions of people on October 7th.

Can you help with something actually concrete? Anything from the BBC, Reuters, The Guardian, RTE..?

Is maith an scéalaí an aimsir

You know damn well what happened but your overt bias is going to spin it as anything but what actually happened.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-troops-killed-hostages-mistaking-their-cries-help-ambush-military-2023-12-28/

No doubt they got in the way of innocently fired bullets, or "but Hamas".

Why doesn't France, UK drop food in via air.

I know what happened, but @dmcdona specifically used the word 'executed', which is not what happened.

So what would you call shooting dead 3 unarmed men wearing nothing but underwear waving white flags?

No interest in your trolling.

You can call it many things.

Carelessness

An Accident

Blue on blue

Wonton disregard

But it wasn't an execution.

It baffles my mind. Like HAMAS as the face of Gazan resistance had a lot of goodwill before October 7th but they lost that all in one day.

I think between themselves, Hezbollah and Iran they thought they could actually get the upper hand on Israel. I don't think they believe Israel would completely level Gaza city and that they'd engage in extremely costly urban warfare. Israel didn't take the bait.

Hezbollah let's not forget wasn't going to be easy for Israel especially when they could just fall back into parts of Lebanon where Israel couldn't reach. But that Pager attack completely crippled them at a commander level.

Ultimately it all led to a direct conflict with Iran who had their air defence and air force crippled within days. Israel had free reign to target anywhere they wanted and systematically took out most of their command. Iran again to their credit surprised me with their ability to land those extremely advanced missiles on Israel. Like I said before it was good to see the Israeli regime get a bloody nose for once. But every day their ballistic missile stock grew shorter, Israel was blowing up more and more launchers and America had just bombed them.

It was either stop or face the US and Israel picking you off piece by piece. Sorry for the long answer but I don't think the alliance of Iran, HAMAS, Yemen and Hezbollah believed it would go this way.

In terms of both optics both sides have emerged terribly but let's not forget what sort of government Israel has right now. If their end goal is to conquer a large chunk of Gaza they'll take the flak for now, take their gains, end the war and inevitably things will return to a relative norm.

@BorneTobyWilde

Great suggestion! America were doing this at one point I think under Biden so why the hell isn't the EU parachuting in aid. Shows how little they care.