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Senior ministers concerned about effects of Occupied Territories Bill.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    So are you gonna now vote for FF and FG for standing up for Palestine? Or still go with SF or PBP ??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 54,961 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Never voted for SF. No PBP in my area. FF and FG ? Has to be analysed before making my mind up. Ind - if I agree with their policies is a maybe.

    Certainly won't be voting for anyone who backs Genocide and land-grabbing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    So no electoral gain for government parties from this stunt while real risk of setting the economy on fire and causing mass unemployment

    This is up there with Brexit when it comes to pointless self harm



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 54,961 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    It's never wrong to point out or punish criminal behaviour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭thatsdaft




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 54,961 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Of course it does. Not buying products from them is punishment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    What products? I’ve been trying hard to find details of anything we import from Israel but coming up blank

    Only concrete thing could find was some fruit imports, but those could be hiring Palestinians to pick them, do we punish Palestinians to stick it to Israelis

    Yeh great plan there



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 54,961 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    The bill would ban the import of physical goods such as dates, oranges, olives, timber, and cosmetics from Israeli settlements. Products made by Palestinian companies in the same area, such as Zaytoun olive oil, would remain 

    excluded from the measure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    That be little consolation to Palestinians working for Israeli companies who will also lose their jobs

    After October 7th a large amount of them already lost jobs (well done HAMAS) only to be replaced by Indians

    The more I read into this the more I’m convinced the proponents of this hate Palestinians too (never mind the self hate for fellow Irish citizens)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,760 ✭✭✭circadian


    Ireland’s economic model has become so dependent on foreign direct investment (FDI) that we’ve lost the political will and perhaps even the belief, that we can act independently on moral grounds. While FDI undoubtedly helped build the Celtic Tiger and lifted Ireland into an era of rapid prosperity, the consequences of that model have become increasingly apparent since the mid-2000s, especially following the 2008 crash. What began as a growth engine has now become an economic straitjacket. We’ve entered a phase of hyper-capitalism that has eroded public life: skyrocketing housing costs, the normalization of gig and precarious work, declining job security, and a sharp increase in the cost of living.

    This model has not only shaped our economy, it has reshaped our politics. The Irish government’s prolonged hesitation to pass the Occupied Territories Bill is a stark example of how fear of upsetting multinational corporations or foreign governments overrides our stated values. The bill is a basic expression of Ireland’s long-standing support for human rights and international justice. Yet it's been stalled for over seven years, despite broad public support. Why? Because the political class is afraid of how international capital might respond, or at least they say they are.

    We’re constantly warned that standing up for principles might lead to job losses, capital flight, or reduced investment. But this assumes a level of corporate sensitivity and volatility that doesn’t match reality. These corporations have already invested billions in infrastructure, workforce, and logistics. They're not going to pull up stakes overnight because Ireland expresses a moral position on international law, especially one that aligns with UN resolutions and global consensus.

    This fear narrative isn’t new. History shows us that moral courage doesn't always come at a high economic cost. Look at the Dunnes Stores workers strike in the 1980s. Ireland’s economy was in far worse condition than it is today, but that didn’t stop a small group of retail workers on Henry Street from taking a principled stand against apartheid. They refused to handle South African produce, and they endured hardship and a prolonged strike in solidarity with oppressed people thousands of miles away. Their actions sparked national debate and ultimately helped shift policy: three years later, the Irish government banned imports from South Africa. That wasn’t a convenient decision but it was the right one. And the country endured it with its dignity intact.

    Today, in contrast, we’re wealthier than we’ve ever been yet seemingly more afraid to act. We’ve internalised the idea that standing up to multinational pressure is a luxury we can’t afford. But this is a political choice, not an economic necessity. The government’s failure to act decisively on the Occupied Territories Bill is not about legal nuance or diplomatic caution, it’s about self-imposed submission to a global economic order that prioritises corporate comfort over human rights.

    Ireland has long prided itself on punching above its weight diplomatically, often taking bold moral stances on the world stage. But we can’t have it both ways, we can’t claim a principled foreign policy while hiding behind economic excuses whenever pressure mounts. If we truly believe in justice, if we truly believe in the rules-based international order, then the time to act is now.

    The consequences of our FDI-driven, hyper-capitalist model are visible in nearly every aspect of life for ordinary people in Ireland. We see it in the chronic housing crisis that has made home ownership unattainable for an entire generation. We feel it in the erosion of workers’ rights, the rise of insecure and low-paid gig economy jobs, and the slow hollowing out of public services that once formed the backbone of social solidarity. Communities are being pushed out of their own cities, younger people are emigrating not out of ambition but necessity, and meaningful political action is often delayed or diluted out of fear of upsetting external investors.

    When a country becomes so entangled in the interests of global capital that it cannot act on even modest moral imperatives, it’s a sign that sovereignty itself is being outsourced. If Ireland is to reclaim any meaningful agency, economically, socially, or politically, we must start by rejecting the myth that we are powerless in the face of capital, and remember that the health of a society is measured by the dignity of the people who live in it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Our sovereignty was outsourced the moment we collectively decided not to spend anything on own defence like other neutral countries like Switzerland do

    In a dog eat dog, might is right world, likes of Israel would and do just laugh at us, especially since they don’t export much here and what little is exported seems to involve Palestinians trying to earn a wage and who be hurt by our virtue signaling



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 54,961 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    So you're worried about the Irish suffering and also about the Palestinians ??? Makes a change anyway but I smell a rat.

    The potential passage of the Occupied Territories Bill (OTB) in Ireland is not expected to cause suffering for Palestinians; rather, it aims to address the issue of trade with illegal Israeli settlements in occupied Palestinian territories, aligning with international law and potentially offering some level of support for Palestinian rights. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Brexit also promised many daft things but made things much worse



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,760 ✭✭✭circadian


    Calling the Occupied Territories Bill “virtue signaling” is a lazy dismissal of a principled, lawful action. This bill doesn’t ban trade with Israel; it targets goods from illegal settlements which is something the international community, including the UN, has consistently condemned. Choosing not to reward violations of international law is a stand against normalisation of occupation.

    The idea that this would somehow harm Palestinians more than help them is part of the same flawed logic that keeps the status quo in place, one where Palestinians remain economically dependent on the very structures that deny them sovereignty. If we're serious about supporting Palestinian dignity and rights, we can't do that while enabling a system that entrenches dispossession and apartheid.

    The larger part of Israeli exports to Europe and beyond is not agricultural produce but services: tech, defence, cyber, and AI. That sector could eventually face global scrutiny too. If it does, it will be because a growing number of people and governments no longer want to separate economics from ethics.

    In that light, the Occupied Territories Bill is the start of drawing a line and hopefully the screw starts turning to stop the atrocities happening daily by a country that is backed by western nations, including Irish tax Euros via EU funding schemes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 54,961 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,756 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    What people fail to realise is the consequences of these actions. Irish politicians have been openly critical of not just Israel but China and Russia. These are countries with known espionage departments and hacking teams. Our politicians are painting a target on our backs. You can always just make generic statements without sticking your neck out to be chopped off. We also are not a large enough country to matter to them either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,756 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Don’t invade a country and kidnap their civilians, refuse to give them back and be surprised that they flatten your cities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,865 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Fine. Don't expect said country to be viewed as anything but a pariah state when they view flattening cities and deliberately starving people as acceptable in the process. Even a past CIA director has said what Israel has done has gone well beyond self defense and is wholly disproportionate. Surely when ex officials from a staunch ally are calling you out it times to examine your position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,953 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    So that's a "no, the argument I advanced is nonsense, but rather than admit the fact I'll try to distract attention by advancing an even more ridiculously extreme argument" then, is it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭ziggyman17


    The 'Irish' government has a single job: to serve the interests of the Irish people. Passing this bill does the exact opposite of this……..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 54,961 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Another lad worried about his job. Crime should always be called out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭GalwayMark


    I'm more concerned about the wider consequences of passing this bill namely how it may affect Washington's support for the GFA plus how Israel may start helping loyalists with hardline elements of british intelligence stirring things up North try to set it on fire with help from Putin as it's well documented Jim Dowson worked for the KGB during the 2016 Presidential election as a way to get revenge on Hillary Clinton for criticising him over the repression of protests outside the Kremlin in late 2011. Too much has been made of jobs and investment becoming jeopardised but it obscures the real threat of defying Washington extremely loudly in the current geopolitical context especially if Northern Ireland descends into violence with Loyalist Paramilitaries which even compared to the 'Troubles' era had collaborated with Apartheid South Africa which is nothing compared to Putin's fascist regime that makes South Africa appear like Child's play and then parts of the EU may not show solidarity most notably the Central European bloc wholly backing Israel to the hilt.

    Standing up to bullies is the correct thing but unfortunately when you're dependant on their backers for political and economic support on an upcoming issue like the future border poll it's a difficult minefield to navigate especially when anti-boycott legislation was introduced by the cousins which makes everything the more harder if you're expending diplomatic and political capital on legislation that will be totally misrepresented by a vicious fascist settler colonial regime using past trauma and false history to bolster their 'victim' credentials and may use it to empower your adversaries as retaliation for not giving in to very serious threats that could backfire on us horribly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,760 ✭✭✭circadian


    Westminster would rather be rid of Northern Ireland, this would go against those interests.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭GalwayMark


    I'm not talking about Westminster but rogue elements that would collude with Russia and Israel to serve their wider agenda that shouldn't be ruled out if the bill is passed and that's clear with AIPAC bribed politicians warning us of severe consequences not just monetary but invisible political and diplomatic sanctions that may delay Irish Unity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 228 ✭✭Noworries!


    God forbid people should be concerned about their incomes and their own families. I find this entire argument surreal, because anyone arguing against you hopes you're right, because if you're wrong, then the consequences for Ireland's economy will be bad. And people will lose their jobs, and that will also be bad, for them, and their families. People who are just trying their best, probably nice people, will suffer, to get involved in a conflict that is nothing to do with us. Maybe if it goes well others will join in, but I have doubts if other EU nations will tag in if the US enacts existing legislation against what we are doing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    God forbid anyone should be concerned about the systemic murder of children. I find this entire argument surreal etc etc.

    For the record, I work for an American MNC.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,953 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    A world in which the rule-based order breaks down and the strong can get away with whatever they please is not in the Irish people's interests. Large and powerful states, and their clients, can survive in such a world but small states cannot.

    Tl;dr: the interests of Irish people are not confined to their short-term financial interests.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    Jewish New Yorkers protest war criminal Ben Gvir's New York visit.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oIEzrvl_ro



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,760 ✭✭✭circadian


    While I get that you'd be concerned about the American reaction to this the reality is that most companies have invested huge sums over the years to be here. Regardless of what Trump might try to do to punish us, the money guys will always be able to push back or find a way around it. He's all bluster and in the very short term may cause a small economic upset but I simply cannot envisage any large scale unemployment.

    If anything, I'd like to see the government provision safety nets for anyone that does become unemployed as the result of diplomatic fallout.

    I'd happily take a hit if it meant as a nation we don't get bullied out of our principles because of the threats of an emotionally fragile sex offender.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    David MCWilliams is the latest one to point out the stupidity of this bill in his last pod



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