Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 14/08/25*

No I’m saying the article doesn’t have to explicitly cite immigration as a cause for anyone else to come to that conclusion.

Yes I linked the article because of the data it cites demonstrating the collapse in home ownership in the 25-39 cohort (from 22% in 2011 to 7% in the same cohort).

Omitting to mention something doesn’t mean it disagrees. IT articles, apart from the odd Michael McDowell or David McWilliams article rarely highlight any negative aspects of migration.

It’s rather uncaring indifference for your perspective on immigration, than any feelings one way or another about Ireland’s younger generations. As it is though, I don’t care much for anyone who imagines that what’s preventing them from getting on the property ladder is other people getting on the property ladder who are in no way, shape or form preventing them from getting on the property ladder or gaining access to education, healthcare or indeed welfare and blames other people for causing their perpetual misery.

Enjoy the gaff and the cheap migrant labour - hopefully it’ll go well enough to sort your children or grandchildren and they’ll not have to deal with any of this misery!

That’s generally the plan alright, I worked hard enough for it, why shouldn’t I get to enjoy it? Why shouldn’t I pass that on to my child? That’s what most people do anyway, rather than suggesting immigrants are at the root of all their woes, and in order for them to be happy, Government has to turn the economy on its arse, making the vast majority of Irish people suffer for the minority who are opposed to immigration and are grasping at straws to justify their arguments. It’s not that your article has to mention immigration, it’s the fact that it doesn’t mention immigration at all! I got that you were presenting it in support of your argument about an increasing population being one of the reasons why young people weren’t buying property, but it tanked that argument too!

You’re also welcome to continue pretending your concern is for Ireland’s younger generations while it’s plain to see that Ireland’s younger generations are nothing more than a proxy for your arguments against immigration. Survey after survey shows that Ireland remains largely positive towards immigration -

https://www.esri.ie/news/new-esri-research-finds-that-attitudes-towards-immigration-and-refugees-remain-largely

https://www.gov.ie/en/department-of-children-disability-and-equality/press-releases/new-survey-examines-peoples-attitudes-to-diversity-in-ireland/

Full report is here:

https://assets.gov.ie/static/documents/survey-on-people-in-irelands-attitude-towards-diversity.pdf

First paragraph simply amounts to a denial that increased demand for a scarce resource results in the price increasing. It’s simply not true, nor borne out by reality.

What is your assertion then for why home ownership has collapsed for the younger generation?
If there aren’t enough houses but there are continuously more people coming in, does that not exacerbate the already lacking supply?

And I’m not suggesting immigrants are the root of all woes - that’s a dishonest misrepresentation. Read back through my posts and you will see I consistently acknowledge the benefits of immigration to the country. I most certainly do not want to stop immigration, I do want to temporarily stem the inward flow however, until our infrastructure can catch up to where it needs to be.

And I honestly don’t give two shíts if you try and cynically frame my concern for the younger generation of Ireland as simply being anti immigration. I’m 29 and I’m seeing first hand the difficulties many of my friends and family are experiencing with the housing and related crises.
I’d be sure your stance was all down to your own moral purity and not your simple lucky privilege of being born at the opportune time but thankfully you’ve put us right on that point.

David McWilliam's most recent podcast is about the housing and public services crises being a result of reckless immigration policies. He supports the idea of reduced immigration from non-EU countries via work permits/asylum seeking.

Talking about this stuff mustn't be racist any more, I guess. 😆

First paragraph simply amounts to a denial that increased demand for a scarce resource results in the price increasing. It’s simply not true, nor borne out by reality.

Housing isn't scarce though, what's scarce is the possibility of getting a four-bedroom house for under €300k, but that's not the same as suggesting that properties can't be bought for far less, and I've already pointed out that even 10 years ago, rental prices in Dublin were hitting €1k per month. Even from your own bloody article (and I'll keep coming back to it) -

“In fact, and contrary to the public perception, a combination of new builds and absorption of vacant properties provided enough accommodation to keep pace with growth in household numbers​ between 2011 and the most recent census,” he says.“Housing demand is actually about the willingness and ability of society to pay for housing rather than being about population growth per se,” McCartney says.

What is your assertion then for why home ownership has collapsed for the younger generation?
If there aren’t enough houses but there are continuously more people coming in, does that not exacerbate the already lacking supply?

My assertion? It's your assertion that home ownership has collapsed for the younger generation based upon an article that provides no sources for the statistics it uses, but leaving that aside, I've already given you plenty of explanations as to why younger generations aren't so adamant about owning property as previous generations (apart from the fact that they have to have some way to pay for it!), including but not limited to:

• I think it’s to be expected in a country where more people than ever before are obtaining third-level education and are not as previously was the norm in Ireland finishing their education at secondary level and obtaining low-paid employment which is ok if all one wants is to be able to afford to rent a bedsit from one of the many landlords creaming it before bedsits were outlawed in 2008 when rents even then were around €1,000 a month.
• I also expect it with the fall-off in demand for three and four bedroom houses with people choosing to have smaller families than previous generations, people emigrating to countries for the better lifestyle on offer (I know, better lifestyle than our generous Welfare State, greedy Irish bastards!), to the point where the only phenomenon that could be considered unnatural, was the spike in asylum seekers from other countries applying for asylum in Ireland, while workers from within the EU are pointing out that it isn’t a housing crisis that’s the issue, or immigration, it’s the fact that people can’t afford accommodation - https://www.thejournal.ie/housing-ireland-spanish-workers-hostels-5931955-Nov2022/

And again from your own article -

Stanley says there is a notion that Irish people don’t want to live in apartments, which is not true. “It’s the greatest piece of misinformation that’s put out there,” he says, highlighting the strong demand for new apartment schemes. Apartments comprised 60 per cent of Cairn’s sales last year. Density or the lack of has long been cited as a big factor in Ireland’s housing problem.About 10 per cent of people here live in apartments versus an EU average of 47 per cent, Eurostat has reported. The State has made things difficult for itself by building out instead of up. Wraparound infrastructure – transport in particular – is harder to deploy with such a scattergun approach to housing.

And I’m not suggesting immigrants are the root of all woes - that’s a dishonest misrepresentation. Read back through my posts and you will see I consistently acknowledge the benefits of immigration to the country. I most certainly do not want to stop immigration, I do want to temporarily stem the inward flow however, until our infrastructure can catch up to where it needs to be.

It wasn't intended as a misrepresentation, it's how not just your post, but many posts in this discussion come across. I don't need to read back through your posts at all, and you shouldn't take it personally when I point out that what you're suggesting is Government should turn the economy on it's arse making the vast majority of Irish people suffer for the minority who are opposed to immigration and are grasping at straws to justify their arguments. You are grasping at straws to justify your arguments though, and anecdotes, like the one below -

And I honestly don’t give two shíts if you try and cynically frame my concern for the younger generation of Ireland as simply being anti immigration. I’m 29 and I’m seeing first hand the difficulties many of my friends and family are experiencing with the housing and related crises.
I’d be sure your stance was all down to your own moral purity and not your simple lucky privilege of being born at the opportune time but thankfully you’ve put us right on that point.

Indeed, wouldn't want you thinking I was one of those lefties who as it has been pointed out already in the discussion -

promise to deliver more social housing, more schools, more hospitals and be less reliant on private businesses to solve social issues.

Turns out my son was born at an opportune time too, and he's 10 years younger than you are. Or was it simply that I put the groundwork in 30 years ago so that my family and future generations would enjoy a better standard of living than I did growing up, so that they wouldn't end up in a situation like the Little Englanders who voted for Brexit and are ending up even worse off than they were before. That outcome wasn't remotely surprising given who owned most of the land in the UK in the first place -

Briefing 17: Who owns all the land? | Inequality Briefing

You appear to be operating under the belief that depriving immigrants of opportunities means that those opportunities will open up for you and yours. Life experience should have taught you otherwise by now.

There is so much wrong with jack's outlook that I wouldn't know where to begin. Jack we were just lucky to be born in a time when we could buy houses on an average wage. That's not skill or cleverness on our behalf, just luck. We got there before the ladder was pulled up and this generation left to grow old in their bedrooms. **** sake jack. Have some cop on.

It's an absolute joke we are 'obliged' to house every single applicant, even if it is completely obvious that their claim is going to be rejected. O'Callaghan is spot on too that the state will have to prioritise housing AS/IPAs over Irish homeless if the AS/IPAs are to be paid damages if there is nowhere to put them.

No surprise to learn that the Irish Refugee Council (partly funded by the state!) are funding the court case of one of the IPAs that is suing the state for damages because he wasn't given acommodation straight away:

"One of the applicants in the case was represented by the Irish Refugee Council Independent Law Centre, Mr Henderson said, adding that the male experienced “72 days of street homelessness, hunger and fear in Ireland” after applying for international protection and being told that there was no accommodation for him."

The law is clearly not fit for purpose in a country that is undergoing a housing crisis. If this case succeeds the hoteliers will be laughing all the way to the bank and tourism will be used as a sacrificial lamb.

First that group is the very opposite of a random sample. That have not been randomly selected.

They have identified themselves as the buyers from a small group of owners. Nothing random about that.

And yes it is racist when you look a picture of people who have committed no crimes. Committed no act of violence or criminality against you or anyone else as far as you aware and to yet you are upset because you don't like the colour of their skin.

That sure sounds like a textbook racist right there.

And yet you can’t see anything wrong with the claim that we were just lucky to be born at a time when we could buy a house on an average wage? It was no different then than it is now - some people could afford to buy a large property, more people inherited large properties, and most people were far below the average wage and couldn’t afford to buy a property and would never be in a position to be able to afford to buy property. To suggest there’s no skill or cleverness in it ignores the reality of the times it was when people on minimum wage could get 100% mortgages on properties worth €250k at that time, and find themselves unable to pay the mortgage a few years later when the economy tanked and all anyone could talk about was how much they were in negative equity.

There’s no generation are growing old in their bedrooms, plenty are still buying properties, paying eye-watering rents to live in nice properties, and there are rising numbers of people who are homeless who are living in what was only ever meant to be temporary accommodation, but is now becoming a way of life, and none of that is the result of increasing immigration or increasing population (and an increasing aging population at that because more people are simply living longer than previous generations meaning that younger generations are waiting longer for their inheritance), so I don’t agree with your view at all that the previous generation has pulled the ladder up after themselves, as there’s little evidence to support that conclusion. It has always been the case that people simply looked after their own first, and social media gives other people the opportunity to complain about how their lives are so unfair.

Landlords can charge more for desirable properties, in desirable locations, and can raise prices so long as there are people who are willing to pay. Housing supply isn’t limited, it’s simply a matter of where people want to live, and how much they’re willing to pay to live there.

There aren’t too many people want to live in areas of the country where there are a lack of amenities or employment opportunities are scarce or schools or hospitals or whatever else that are available to them in urban areas. It’s why our cities are more like an urban sprawl than any proper planning or infrastructure being developed. Government are trying desperately to avoid ghettoisation, but as hard as they try, people are still choosing for themselves where they want to live, where they can afford to live -

“In fact, and contrary to the public perception, a combination of new builds and absorption of vacant properties provided enough accommodation to keep pace with growth in household numbers​ between 2011 and the most recent census,” he says.“Housing demand is actually about the willingness and ability of society to pay for housing rather than being about population growth per se,” McCartney says.

No, I wasn't asking why people pay more to live in some areas rather than others. I'm asking why, overall, people are paying more generally compared to in the past relative to wages.

I think this is what you meant too, when you were talking about skyrocketting rents. You meant rents going up rapidly over time.

Irish people on the streets can get shelter, the problem is they’d rather stay on the streets than avail of any shelter provided, for various reasons.

And no, nobody from another country is entitled to housing under EU law. Applicants for international protection however, are entitled to have their basic needs met, and the State’s failure to do so means that they could be found to be in violation of the terms of the international agreements in law which Ireland have agreed to abide by, as a member of the EU -

While Ms Medina suggested that force majeure may apply temporarily, it should only be for a reasonable period to resolve the issue.

She has concluded the right to dignity is non-derogable, an absolute right, and if a member state fails to meet the basic needs of applicants for international protection, it infringes EU law.

Therefore the member state cannot invoke force majeure as a defence.

The advocate general's opinion has been viewed as highly significant by advocates of those seeking international protection here.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2025/0410/1506948-international-protection-applicant-european-court/

O’ Callaghan’s attempted justification is apples and oranges, while doing little to address the causes of either issue and then claiming it would be a hard sell for Irish people, as if that should make any difference in terms of the State upholding its international obligations.