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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,616 ✭✭✭Field east


    Mulbot,in order to help you to post more accurately and objectively and in a more balanced way I suggest the following by trying to explain to you Jmreire’s no 15172 and 15262. So, would you like to visit/live in a country that-

    has the most beautiful scenery in the world

    Has the best of fresh locally produced food available

    All restaurants cater for vegans , vegetarians and suchlike.

    Cost of food, and the other basics are very affordable

    Has an affordable health service that is available to all including visitors/tourists

    Has no housing problem

    Full employment is the norm.

    There are police everywhere to make sure’ law and order’ are kept


    BUT , BUT, BUT, BuT, BUT, if

    you put a step wrong eg breaking traffic lights

    Or you have not got your papers with you when stopped by police

    Or you look suspicious

    Or you are protesting against anything but especially against government policy

    Or carrying a placard which says nothin

    Then (THEN ) , the police will have the right to arrest you and it is up to the discression of the court whether to jail , release or fine you, . You might also be asked for a few bob by the arresting officer and his surperiors involved in your case.

    And if you are from , for example, The US , The UK, Germany or France and you get jail , the jail term might be longer. This can be mitigated if there is a prisoner swap arranged.

    And , by the way, some of these jails are in very cold places and you will need very warm clothes.

    And the chances are that you will not be allowed to communicate with family or solicitors while incarcerated

    So, in summary , what’s the point in highlighting what is good about the country when your basic freedom is under constant threat and especially in the context of what the country that is carrying out this Special Military Operation is like



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    If Russia is so great

    1. Why are you here?
    2. When can send back to Russia the millions of Russian migrants and tourists who chose to flood Europe instead of going to “allies” like China, Iran or North Korea for some reason

    Meanwhile



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Avatar in the Post


    2.


    These people clearly fell for Western propaganda lies. Shur, if they only listened to Russia State TV informing them the Western infrastructure is falling apart they would never leave. Obviously, Berlin Wall like, once they are in the West they are held and cannot flee back to civilisation in Russia. I feel sorry for them really.*

    *Could I get a job on Orwell Rd?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 483 ✭✭8mv


    Speaking for myself only, I had very few bad experiences while living and working in Russia. Granted, this was before Putin. I had a very interesting and enjoyable life there with just a few run-ins with unsavoury characters - just like anybody working in Ireland would have. But my positive experience in Russia does not equate to making allowances for their brutality or supporting their ridiculous claims.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    And there you have it.

    War - including indiscriminate shelling of civilian infrastructure and abduction of citizens - can be justified if your neighbour won't hand over land that you've decided you are entitled to and where they want to join other neighbouring nations in signing up to a military defence grouping.

    Shall we travel the globe and pick out all the historic border disputes and allow the gloves to be taken off to see who gets to keep what? Would Germany like Danzig back?

    At least you're not pretending anymore. A country that was functioning just fine until Russia interfered now deserves to be carved up, because might is right. And of course, god knows what horrors would have awaited Ukraine had it joined the EU - that well known destroyer of human rights and civil liberties. Much better to align with Putin's Russia where democracy has never been stronger and all dissenting voices are welcomed.

    TLDR; a load of disingenuous horse s**te barely pretending to be facts.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    I mean surely there's clear evidence of the overwhelming majority of citizens there cheering in the streets, taking up arms in support of the Russians and jumping in to take control of civic management to ensure that it's a well run and happy place to live free of the tyranny of Ukrainian governance?

    No? Just thousands of refugees and people voting in front of armed, balaclava covered goons?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,326 ✭✭✭thomil


    You’re right, Ukraine gets a lot of information from NATO recon and intelligence sources. However as far as I know, no nation has given NATO direct access to these sources, the material always gets processed before being passed on. More importantly, that information doesn’t come with instructions. Even when it comes to the AEW and ELINT aircraft that are still patrolling along the eastern edge of NATO, they only provide warnings and indications of incoming attacks, not recommendations as to which interceptors or SAM batteries should engage those. As such, the actual fighting is still done by Ukraine with Ukrainian assets.

    Taurus would be different. Working on the assumption that Germany does not provide Ukraine unlimited access to its intelligence and recon assets, things would go as follows: Ukraine would specify the targets it wanted to take out with Taurus. It would be the job of German soldiers to plan out the mission in detail, including the timing, the number of missiles needed, the launch points for those missiles, and so on. Essentially, German soldiers would be subordinated to another nation’s command. This would possibly be barely acceptable for strikes within Ukrainian territory, but that would be a waste of these weapons. Taurus is a long range missile and best used for deep strikes against Russia. Having German soldiers planning deep missile strikes on behalf of another nation against the territory of a third nation would be wholly illegal.

    When KEPD Taurus was originally developed, it was planned primarily as a way to give Germany its own indigenous long-range strike capability, fully integrated in, and built on, the Bundeswehr’s own infrastructure and resources. At the time, the goal was to have a system that is as independent of US resources as possible. It wasn’t originally even planned for export, although that changed once it became clear that Spain and South Korea were showing serious interest. But even then, their mission planning suites had to be tailor-made for them and the resources that they had available.

    By contrast, SCALP/Storm Shadow was always designed in a more open and flexible manner, with export sales being a major part of the development. These weapons are able to make use of a far broader spectrum of data sources for targeting and mission planning. Involvement of French and UK soldiers was limited to training and general advice, not detailed planning of actual missions. This relative ease and adaptability is shown by the fact that Ukraine integrated Storm Shadow into its existing Su-24 force, the very type of aircraft whose bases Storm Shadow was designed to destroy.

    The legal issue is another different kettle of fish, and a particularly unpalatable one. Whilst Germany has abolished the crime of “preparation and execution of a war of aggression” from its criminal code, Germany is still bound by a similar type of “triple lock” to the one that is used in Ireland, although the German version is not as strict. There’s also still a whole slew of paragraphs in the German criminal code that would be violated by the type of in-depth involvement of Bundeswehr soldiers that would be required if Germany were to provide Taurus to Ukraine, not to mention that it would violate the German constitution in a major way.

    More importantly, under German law, the soldiers themselves would be held criminally liable as well as their commanders, German soldiers aren’t just allowed to disobey unlawful orders, they are obligated to do so. Compliance with such an order would make them complicit. And whilst the likes of Pistorius or Merz can easily afford the best lawyers in the country to get their head out of the proverbial noose, the junior officers and NCOs operating the system don’t have that luxury.

    I get where you’re coming from, and I agree with you. I believe the gloves need to come off in a big way because otherwise, this war of conquest on Russia’s part is not going to stop with Ukraine. However, it’s worth pointing out that decisions like whether or not to send Taurus are usually a lot more complex than can be conveyed in a simple tweet.

    Now, there is a way I could see around this dilemma. Germany’s SAR-Lupe recon satellites are about to be decommissioned, although they are apparently still fully operational. Their replacement satellites, a constellation called SARah, were launched a few years ago and are now operational. Don’t blame me for their names, they all derive from the Synthetic Aperture Radar that is their main sensor system. I guess someone in the German MoD thought they were being clever. At the same time, Germany has started the process of replacing its current stockpile of Taurus missiles with a more advanced successor, although this will take some time. It would be a massive move, and take several years to train up Ukrainian operators, but I’d love to see Germany transfer control of SAR-Lupe to Ukraine and then transfer the Taurus missiles. That would give Ukraine direct control over one of the primary data sources for Taurus, circumventing the legal issues I mentioned above.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,084 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    More of these citizens have died as a direct result of Russian 'protection' than were ever killed or endangered by Ukrainian attempts to maintain order… not only civilians directly killed by Russia but dead and maimed as cannon fodder in their war of plunder and conquest.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Always thought that a daft decision on the part of the Russian authorities. They seem to have near zero self or wider awareness about how they're viewed. Or might be viewed positively. It's like some are addicted to being seen in the negative. The "everybody hates us" line is strong and I've noted this in Russian folks I know and have known and long before this war too.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭thatsdaft




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 880 ✭✭✭junkyarddog


    https://bsky.app/profile/nataliaantonova.bsky.social/post/3ltvbudvxcs2z

    A few months ago DeAnna Huffman announced that her husband Derek is joining the Russian Army. They said they wouldn’t send him to the front lines. They lied. What you get when you’re an American who moves to Russia for “Christian values.”

    Classic case of FAFO!

    Wonder how long he'll last,and will she remain in russia when the inevitable happens?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Is that the “conservative” Canadian family that famously moved to Russia for better “family values”?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 880 ✭✭✭junkyarddog


    American.

    Description from their YouTube channel.

    Join our American family of 5, along with our husky, as we embark on exciting adventures in & around Istra, Russia! We will share our adventures as we settle into our new home in the American Village. We will provide insights from our experiences, challenges, & explore the ins & outs of our daily lives in Russia. Whether you're considering a move to Russia, planning a visit, or simply curious about life in this fascinating country, our fun & entertaining channel is one to watch. Subscribe to join us on this incredible journey as we aim to become Russian citizens & share our experiences & thoughts along the way!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Thanks

    Next video title:

    “Putin where is my bag of onions”

    A month later

    “How me an my daughter make millions of roubles on OnlyOrcs”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Sooo, to sum up. NATO is evil because it was effective at stopping other nations from attacking its member states? And once its forces were used to try and supress another war in Eastern Europe (where no doubt you see the Serbs as the victims).

    It's a bit like me complaining about the airbags in my car never ONCE having saved my life, just taking up precious space and adding to the cost.

    Excellent mental gymnastics. Laughing at undisputed poll results from 1991 and then proceeding to cheerlead historic events from 25-30 years ago as justification for the invasion and attempted annexation of a sovereign European country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    Kellogg back in Ukraine. Still not ready to accept anything Trump might say until there's physical stuff on the ground in Ukraine and not just people.

    Meanwhile there's an missile threat alert in Kyiv as a welcoming present for him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    He quite clearly hasn't, as anyone who has followed this thread and his posts from Day 1 can attest to. He has plenty of good things to say about the people, and actually gives the impression of someone who enjoyed a lot of his experience in that part of the world, but who has little sympathy for those who willingly give up their moral compass for money and power. I get the impression that when a regime change inevitable comes about, that poster would welcome the chance to revisit the country.

    Yet another misrepresentation of facts by you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,569 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    She's pairing back what she knows she can and can't say about Dear leader putin or the kremlin. When she first arrived she was on social media complaining of how they were treated. Poor husband Derek had to go on social media too to explain away that his wife was very emotional and they had to adjust to the different ways.

    Odds are on Derek is killed and the children are taken into care to be fostered to Russian families and totally immersed in Russian values away from their "foreign agent" mother.

    And the gobsh1tes only went out to farm in Russia. They sold their farm back home to do this. Russians will get that money too some way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,170 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Even more incredible is with your alledged vast experienced of Russia , Ukraine ect. that you never had even one bad experience…..incredible! The only people I know that had such trouble free experience, were the ones who after producing their ID card, all problems melted away. Had you one of these magic cards mulbot? In my time in Russia, I had many experiences, good and bad and made many friends, but the point is, the bad experiences tend to stay in forefront of the memory. The incident I mentioned was mere chat, happens a million times a day in Russia. I've forgotten more of those than I can remember, the point is, they are all part of the fabric of Life in Russia under Vladimir Putin. But I have other memories, many of them, and they are not so easy to forget. But they are not for discussion on a public forum. Have you heard of the expression a telephone call to Putin? Have you ever made such a call? Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin is a Murderous Psychopath,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,170 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Well, all it takes is the one bad experiece to wipe out or seriously diminish any previous good ones.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,772 ✭✭✭mulbot


    Nope, found the Russians very hospitable, never had issues, met alot of western tourists when I've been there, nobody had issues. I've had more issues with Police (1 issue) with police when I lived in Canada, silly traffic nonsense, but that doesn't mean everyone did or that I can give out about Canadian police either. I think a person attitude goes a long way when abroad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    I wasn't joking about my friend who talked me out of visiting. He had to bribe his way across Russia and had his passport taken for a week at one stage. As straight-laced a lad as you could meet, he'd not be one to stand out for breaking or testing rules. He had gone to travel the trans-Siberian railway. My only guess is his red hair drew attention to him as an easy target.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 880 ✭✭✭junkyarddog


    https://bsky.app/profile/specialkhersoncat.bsky.social/post/3ltwadii2vk2p

    The brief tale of Francine and her Russian dream:-Trade your life in the U.S. for a starring role in Russian state propaganda

    Oh dear,another tale of woe from utopia!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,919 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Do know if they knew to speak any Russian before going over there? I’m sort of imagining these pro-Putin Americans to belong to the less-than-educated MAGA cohort. I feel they’d be less inclined to learn other languages, which would be…unwise…for a place like Russia…to say the very least about that «life-choice».



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,838 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,569 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    I think they said they got all their information from a Russian website offering to help american farmers settle in Russia. When they went there their contact disappeared, their money frozen in a russian account and their passports seized. Theres's people get all their information about russia from online sources and nowadays these are kremlin sponsored to get foreign money and foreign hostages.

    The foreign hostage thing roughly means Putin's days are numbered when he's resorting to this.

    There's probably a timeline of dictator growth graphs that has foreign hostages as the pinnacle of the graph before the dictator is finished.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,919 ✭✭✭Rawr


    So they got all their information from dubious website promising the World to them. I’m just:

    IMG_0881.jpeg

    Honestly, I’m still shocked at how thick some people can be. I’m not longer surprised that this can happen…I’m just bamboozled by existence of these people.

    «Hey Brandeen! Dem Russkies are gonna give us a farm if I fight for their Army. Get the young’ens in the pickup truck and we’ll drive down to the airport now. It’s gotta be true…I dun read it on a website!»



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 483 ✭✭8mv


    I used to find 20 Major would go a long way when I was there - if you needed something relatively small like a document stamped. I'd buy a few cartons in Shannon duty-free on my way back after visiting home…I gave up smoking a long time ago - I don't think Major are a thing anymore?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,569 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    The Website said nothing of joining any army. Only sell your land in the US or Canada and buy another farm in Russia five or ten times that size. It'd be packaged up as disillusioned with western values and lgbt rights. Sell your farm and buy times larger and raise your children in a Christian country. There's other religions there too but that's how it's packaged to as you said Maga types who bite. When they get there everything they find is a lie. And there's no private ownership of land. The Kremlin own that and it's at the will of the Kremlin if you can lease that land and for how long and you can be kicked off at any second and assets seized. But for anyone that's grown in a capitalist society with most likely inherited farm that seems to be so alien that it's western propaganda of Russia. They go and find out and there's no way out. Kremlin has you caught.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,131 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Germany's solution was to help Ukraine make their own. They have several new drone systems coming online very soon, The Orcs are going to be facing hundreds of medium to long range missiles and drones soon.

    Ground robot with a heavy machine gone cruises down a road hunting Orcs:



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