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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,007 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Ever tried to run a website with more than a hundred users online at a time using shared hosting?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,004 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    Yep, I’d imagine there’d be plenty of complaints about 503 errors!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Politics.ie is much smaller than Boards.ie. It gets visits from approximately 61 registered users a day. It posts the recent vistors list on some of its pages. Boards.ie would probably have many more than that per hour. There are also unregistered users, search engine crawlers and webscrapers to be considered.

    When talking about hosting, the first thing to do is to ask questions. The obvious ones relate to the size of the website, the software requirements, the database requirements, backup requirements, the estimated traffic requirements.

    A hosting product intended for small websites and blogs (the Godaddy shared hosting image above) might be a bit underpowered when hosting a site like Boards.ie as would the server used by Politics.ie.

    Regards…jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 457 ✭✭redunited


    Do you actually think someone is clocking in at 9am and spend all day tinkering on the website?

    Boards.ie works like this, you register a url and you renew it annually for about 50 euro.

    You purchase hosting, you then install the software which is a forum licence onto the hosting site, this is done by pressing a few buttons, FTP software to the host ,choosing a username and password and the software self installs.

    Then you create forums etc, user classes etc, all done by using the software interface, thus isnt hard nor does it require any technical knowledge.

    Once that has been done the software runs itself, the only thing you need to do is add any addons you want for the site.

    After that the site literally runs itself, unless you go tinkering and break something there really isnt anymore for anyone to do other than keep an eye on moderation etc.

    You can of course each year renew the licence and continue to upgrade the software which is a one click of a button type of upgrade or you can alliw the licence to not renew but continue to run the site as normal.

    Any issues you can seek assistance from the forum software company who offer free support providing you renew your licence.

    Any hosting issues will be supported by the hosting company.

    If you honestly think domeone is clocking in Daily 9 -5 to do site fixes you are totally wrong, not to mention if they were then they should be sacked due to the number of issues the dite currently has!



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 26,203 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    So Simples. I look forward to seeing your new forum.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 457 ✭✭redunited


    In its hey day Pie under Dave Cocheran had thousands of daily visitors, even TDs posted, back then hosting was more expensive but still was done much cheaper than what boards.ie are saying they need.

    Simply put you could run this site for under 1k per year, even 500 euro. The cost and the required cost of the quoted 120k per is mostly for the wage of someone.

    As others have pointed out , this site could be run remotely, no need for office space.

    Also lets not forget, this site is not what it used to be, how much revenue has been lost by moving to Vanilla, the loss of the useful talk to section?

    Id wager traffic to this site is way down and blaming Google is a scapegoat and donations are nothing more than keeping the salaries of some going without any restructure and downsizing.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 78,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    TBH, I dread the switch to plain Vanilla.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭corkie




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 78,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    Yep, but they have no T&Cs, no privacy info, etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭championc


    Maybe the appeal needs to be widened. dot IE limits some participation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Politics.ie was a much smaller site then too. Let's go through what is missing:

    A. Software requirements. The operating system and various versions of software like PHP and MySQL/MariaDB necessary to run the forum.

    B. The storage requirements for the databases and the backups. Big databases need good storage solutions and lots more RAM when posts are being read from and written to that database by multiple users.They also need people with database expertise to design and implement them. With large websites, this isn't the kind of job for the average web developer as it requires a different skillset.

    C. The estimated traffic requirements.

    Without knowing these requirements, it is difficult to say that Boards.ie could be hosted on what would be a low-end dedicated server with no maintenance from the hosting company other than replacements. Managed hosting is more expensive than unmanaged hosting. It might be possible to install a version of Linux on that server. It will have to be patched and maintained. Registering a domain name (not an URL) is probably the least expensive part of the whole process. Boards.ie had a lot of very good people working on it to push vBulletin beyond its limits. That was very different to running a small site on shared hosting.

    Without knowing the hosting requirements for Boards.ie, it is not really possilbe to recommend any hosting solution.

    Regards…jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 457 ✭✭redunited


    Most hosting comes with the required software such as php and databases that isnt an issue, even bandwith isnt that much these days with many hosting providers offering unlimited bandwith.

    Granted the biggest issue is storage, however there are still ways around that such as archiving etc. However what do you honestly think the storage of this site would be? 100GB, 200 GB ??? Still cheap.

    1000011845.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭antimatterx




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,819 ✭✭✭jj880


    Regardless of "unlimited" being listed under shared hosting features you have to pay more to reliably handle high traffic and traffic spikes for a site like Boards. 4 or 8 dollar a month hosting isnt going to cut it.

    >>> BOARDS COULD BE NO MORE!!! INFO HERE:

    👉️ Important News!!

    >>> SUBSCRIBE HERE TO KEEP BOARDS ONLINE:

    👉️ https://subscriptions.boards.ie/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,281 ✭✭✭Damien360


    Surely that can be cut. Some forums like football where data older than 2 years maybe 3 is pointless. Nobody is quoting that far back unless they want a argument.

    I'm sure there are plenty of other forums that could chop away the old wood. How many times has a zombie thread been reopened by a new user and then quickly closed asking them to post a new thread.

    Given the discussion above about web hosting, I would reckon anything in the computer/network forum is useless information older than a couple of years also.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭jmcc


    When you are dealing with dedicated servers on which you install your own Linux distro, things are somewhat different to shared hosting as you have to deal with keeping the operating system patched and updated. If you want to move up to managed hosting, that costs more. The inodes figures look like they are there to impress. There is also no such thing as unlimited bandwidth or storage.

    When you are dealing with a database which has large numbers of simultaneous users reading from it and writing to it, things do become more complex than for a small site with a few pages. Sometimes, running the database and the webserver on the same server might not be a good idea.

    The problem is that the hosting requirements of Boards.ie are not known and therefore it is not relally possible to recommend any hosting solution.

    Regards…jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,049 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    I have no idea about what's involved or the costs of running Boards but I do know that Boards must be open to new ideas & innovation. It always feels old. People offering ideas shouldn't be seen as criticism of Boards, it should be welcome & encouraged.

    So many times I have read the comment about if you don't like it, there are other forums. I think that the users are entitled to question how the site can move forward especially we have stuck with you through the disastrous times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,977 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Storage has never been cheaper. An 8TB drive is ~160 euro to buy.

    A few of them and a couple of NVME's would be able to store a lifetime of Boards, and back it up.

    Servers have never been more powerful or cheaper, the Ryzen chip was a huge leap forward in processing power.

    The hardware costs of running a site like Boards is small.

    Hetzner for example have a 90TB server for 100 euro a month:

    2 by 1TB NVME, 4x 22 TB HDD.

    The 170TB version is 200 euro per month. 12 core cpu, 128 GB DDR4 and really fast bandwidth.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Christ, the number of people who are happy to tell us they have no idea on the requirements of this site but happily recommend something suitable for a basic brochure website is bizarre.

    Look, if you don't want to cough up to support the site then don't, but stop posting daft nonsense in a lame attempt to justify your position!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭_BAA_RAM_EWE


    feedback could be responded to and it wouldn't be happening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 gerry32


    If I understand this correctly:

    A goal of 2,000 paid membership subscriptions required to generate revenue of between approx. €10K - €12K per month plus current advertising revenue.

    Can @Boards.ie: Mike @Boards.ie: Odhran please provide a reasonable comprehensive breakdown of the monthly costs involved to run the site?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,802 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    As I suggested earlier in this thread, there may be a case for archiving the existing site as cheaply as possible and starting fresh with a much simpler design and fewer forums. But there'd be a big furore over it, and you risk killing whatever appeal Boards currently has.

    Otherwise you're looking at either sticking with Vanilla (which is the plan) or migrating to a new platform while taking all the history and technical debt with you. The idea that the latter option could be done with volunteer labour is fanciful IMO.

    Put your money where yer mouth is... Subscribe and Save Boards!

    https://subscriptions.boards.ie/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭corkie


    It sounds like they haven't even done basic research on hosting/traffic limits costs etc?

    The Shared Hosting traffic limit is the maximum number of website visitors your hosting plan can handle in a specific timeframe. For example, a standard Shared Hosting plan typically can accommodate around 300 to 800 visitors per day. However, a reliable hosting provider can ensure that at least 2000-3000 visitors daily, or up to 90,000 users monthly, can visit your website without service interruptions.

    These numbers vary based on the provider and your specific plan. This limit includes all data, including website visits, downloads, emails, and more. Typically, if your website crosses this limit, your hosting provider may add extra charges or temporarily disable it, as outlined in your hosting agreement.

    A WebTribunal report revealed that 37% of website owners faced downtime due to surpassing their traffic limits. Thus, to avoid downtime and give your visitors a better experience, it is essential to understand your plan's capacity.

    • Dedicated Hosting: Starts at around $80/month, with additional costs for high traffic sites.

    Try finding out in the terms of hosting plans for some providers what these not up front costs could be?

    And as for running the site on private basement server etc. Can't guarantee uptime!

    Edit: - And before someone comes back to me with host's providing 'UnLimited Bandwidth' etc, check there hidden terms for a fair usage policy.

    Post edited by corkie on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭Rooks


    No thanks. It used to be great craic here but mods ruined the site years ago. It's over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 niallmurphy-ie


    ..

    Post edited by niallmurphy-ie on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,467 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    I suppose you will have to subscribe to get a proper new one 😜



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,920 ✭✭✭893bet


    Your first post is this. Embarrassed for you. Pay it or don’t pay it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,977 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Image1.jpg

    I have "coughed up", I paid for an annual sub this morning.

    The hardware I recommended is more than adequate for running a site like Boards not a basic brochure website, you are barking up the wrong tree here.

    I'm simply stating facts that the estimated running costs of this site at over 100k per year seem extremely high.

    I hope the site survives but I don't believe 2000 subs is a realistic target.

    Thats objectiveness not daft nonsense, I hope Im wrong though.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 gerry32


    You should not be so defensive. After all it is a fair question.



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