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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭lumphammer2


    Say China invades Taiwan ….. why should not be the business of Europe or America ??? ….. Israel can invade Lebanon, bomb Iran, etc and slaughter thousands of Palestinians in Gaza and not one word about it …… when Russia invaded Ukraine a big deal …. but we were supposed to be ok with America invading Iraq in 2003 ….. it is all hypocrisy and no side is better than the other ….. the West getting involved in places they are not supposed to be causes a load of the trouble ….. and it needs to be clear that people like Rutte should not be marching the world into trouble …..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭lumphammer2


    Putin and NATO are the visible bad guys ….. Ukraine is the battlefield …. ultimate bad guys are the arms dealers who provide the weapons, fund the Russian and NATO/US politicians, and make money out of this slaughter …..



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,665 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    No. It's incredibly easy. The person who is actively working for a bad outcome is the "bad guy", for want of a better label. Rutte put his country into lockdown to protect the residents and citizens of the Netherlands. Putin is trying to destroy a sovereign nation.

    Our actions are what define us. It's really easy to figure out who the bad actors are.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,061 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Israel can invade Lebanon, bomb Iran, etc and slaughter thousands of Palestinians in Gaza and not one word about it 

    Yes that's 100% correct, there hasn't been a single word of criticism of Israel's Gaza incursion in any western country…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭lumphammer2


    There is no doubt Putin and his invasion of Ukraine is bad ….. but tell me this ??? …. when have we heard any real attempts at peace here ???? ….. does NATO really care about Ukraine ??? ….. or do they care more about getting one up on the Russians ???? …. the cold war mentality is alive and well ….. and Ukraine has joined Korea, Vietnam, many African countries and many Central American countries in this long proxy warfare between the West and Russia ….

    Rutte was into lockdowns until February 2022 …. when they had long ended everywhere else …. I do not think that was good leadership then ….. perhaps 2 years before or even 1 year before there was an argument but not then when vaccines were prolific and Covid was better understood ……



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    Cool just wanted to see. Putin and NATO. US Military Complex. Anti Israel spiel lumped in. Textbook!. Can't wait to see you drop a few Marsheimer links?

    Yawn.

    Anyway maybe something good is on the way now that another Vatnik has been stirred to action?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,665 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I'm not interested in covid denier tropes so I won't be responding to that.

    Of course NATO is interested in Ukraine. If Russia wins, it emboldens a tyrant and encourages his plans for territorial expansion.

    I don't know what the point you're trying to make is. Foreign policy is not dictated by getting one over on anyone.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,061 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    when have we heard any real attempts at peace here ????

    What's the point when there's no genuine engagement on Putin's part?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    when have we heard any real attempts at peace here ????

    Ukraine/Zelensky offered an unconditional ceasefire in order to facilitate negotiations. Putin/Russia refused. Forced upon them by the current US Administration by the way, just to make your head explode a little more :)

    Try not to let little things like facts get in the way of your silly little ill formed rants.

    Take your Rutte/Covid whataboutism to a relevant thread. It doesn't belong here. Thanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭lumphammer2


    The point is war is wrong …. and neither side is good …. not talking about Ukraine which is the victim of the invasion but the West ….. they invaded Iraq ….. and Israel ?? … no one can support that (meaning what is happening in Gaza) ….. yes Putin is a tyrant but there are plenty tyrants now and in the past the West were perfectly ok with …..

    I am not a Covid denier …. Covid is very real …. only made the point that Rutte can be a scaremongerer ….. and I do not like talk of WW3/militarisation/etc ….. that is a choice ……



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    Cool. War is wrong. Thanks mate. None of us here were aware of that before. Consider us enlightened.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,665 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    So war is wrong? That's the insight you're peddling?

    And we're on to both sides because of course we are.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,739 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,442 ✭✭✭wassie


    Sounds like he shouldn't have had a tea break today.

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,124 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    All conflicts are different and have different impacts.

    Politically, geopolitically, economically.

    When e.g. Russia invaded Ukraine it had a high impact. An authoritarian country was once again attempting to invade a democracy in Europe (bringing up the spectre of WW2) as well as the Cold War (US v USSR) - then there were the economic impacts (global inflation), the energy crisis, millions of refugees fleeing further into Europe, the potential for escalation with a nuclear power, the potential collapse of Ukraine turning into a snowball effect, further invasion, etc.

    If China were to invade Taiwan there would be a similar global impact. The US is an ally to Taiwan so there is the potential for a much larger conflict there, there would be a huge economic impact, would we sanction China? (that would have a massive global impact if we did) - potentially worse or much worse than Ukraine.

    The world is not "fair" as such, there have been conflicts dragging on for decades already, there are flare-ups, there are short sharp conflicts that die down quickly, there are ignored conflicts in Africa where vast numbers die, there are new conflicts. If we were to judge each on a spectrum of potential severity and global impact indeed China invading Taiwan would be up there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,696 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Another one. Russian Transport Minister Roman Starovoit was found dead near Moscow on Monday from "suicide". He succumbed to a bullitt to the head just hours after President Vladimir Putin fired him following massive disruptions of Russian civilian airspace caused by Ukrainian drone raids.

    Life is cheap in Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Quite the bizarre take. Although it does explain the logic of a large percentage of Americans voting for a narcissistic, lying, tax fiddling, draft dodging, political party hopping sexual predator.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Hmmm… European nations getting involved in defence of another European nation attacked without justification by an autocratic regime… is a bad thing??? Should just look the other way and let them get on with it?? Now if only there was a precedent for how that kind of policy ends up…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    How long before one of them figures that it's worth having a pop at the most corrupt among them, the one who builds himself palaces and had three yachts?

    GUR should open a self help hotline. 'Boss getting you down? Let us help you put him down first.'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭lumphammer2


    The West IS Trump ….. that is who the West is at the moment ….. him, Netanyahu, etc. ….. is that any better than Putin ???? …… the world is a mess lead by evil leaders in charge of big powers ….. smaller countries powerwise be that Ukraine or most of the Middle East are the victims of their games ……



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,661 ✭✭✭mulbot




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Untitled Image

    Someone has the right idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,812 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Another one bites the dust.

    image.png

    Died during the meeting. Couldn't perform CPR on him as he'd blown his own brains out (or something).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,603 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I've heard of using a lumphammer to crack a nut but I've never heard of using one in place of a scalpel...

    Your scattershot "analysis" here is incredibly lacking in nuance and seems to boil down to "War is wrong, mmmkay?" which, even at that simplistic level, is demonstrably wrong.

    It is a perfectly moral thing (in fact most would agree it's a heroic and admirably good thing) to fight a war against a sociopathic tyrant who has managed to take control of a country and uses it's armed forces to engage in genocide. It's exactly why, eighty years since the conflict ended, the soldiers, sailors, pilots and resistance fighters of World War II are venerated in not only "The West" but also in Putin's Russia (they, of course, having memory-holed their imperialist involvement in starting that conflict and their leader's subsequent genocide of his own people). It's also why the brave men and women of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be lionised in popular culture for a long time after the collapse of the Russian Federation and the end of this needless war.

    It would be lovely if all we needed to do was get Putin and Zelenskyy into a room and have them pass around a joint until their differences were settled but the world isn't that simple and the fact remains that the "differences" between the two men amount to:

    An unbelievably corrupt mafia boss who has murdered his way to controlling a country that now wants his footsoldiers to rape, murder, kidnap and brainwash the population of another country into believing they are his subjects.

    &

    The democratically elected leader of that country, who doesn't accept this future for his people and is prepared to defend them (a population who overwhelmingly support him in this regard).

    No serious effort at peace talks has been achieved because Putin doesn't want peace. All evidence we have about the internal politics of Russia suggests he wouldn't live more than a few days beyond issuing the order to retreat back within Russia's own borders. Not to mention that releasing the horde currently committing war crimes in Ukraine back upon his own population will cause "problems". These are, after all, less a professional army than the dregs of Russian prisons and poor unfortunates who have been brutalised into behaving like animals themselves by their comrades in arms.

    Ironically, Donald Trump is the one person who could actually force a peace. He's either too cowardly, too corrupt and/or too controlled by Putin to do it. One phone call is all it takes to demand that Putin withdraw his troops from Ukraine or the USA are sending theirs in to fulfill their commitments under the Budapest Memorandum and the mob boss would have no choice but to retreat. He shouldn't have that power imho (since the USA should been prioritising education, healthcare etc. within their own boarders over building their war machine for the past few decades) but it is what it is. Trump shouldn't have even been in this position tbh: Joe Biden should have done it before the US electorate pressed the self-destruct button.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,696 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    The Russian army are in no position to attack any other country. They are running on petrol fumes now in Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    The guys who hammer their own people with sledge hammers I am sure he would say



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Putin invaded a sovereign European country, do you really think NATO were going to invade Russia?

    I see Laos are going to provide troops to Russia, time to cut off any western aid if the are getting it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,124 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    As much as we can criticise the current US president, or the current situation there, modern Russia is a dictatorship. Putin has been in power through 7 US presidencies, there's little or no free press, there is no opposition, murder of political opponents or anyone is normalized, protest is not tolerated, conscription is brutal, corruption is off the scale.

    There's no comparison.

    It's important to keep things in perspective.

    Edit: Just saw your comment on NATO. It's a defensive organisation. No one wants to invade nuclear armed Russia, literally no one. It is however a threat to Putin's plans to invade other countries. Countries are free to join NATO if they please (even Russia was thinking of it in the 90's)

    You've made smart comments before but you seem to be going down a "both sides" rabbit hole with some of these latest comments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭yagan


    If anyone is going to invade Russia it will be China reclaiming it's qing dynasty territories.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,508 ✭✭✭Field east


    maybe Lumpa——-, there is another way of looking this Russia vs the west concept fronted by Putin and Rotte . What about looking at it from the point of view of Russia|Putin versus the western way of life+ plus the nature of freedom that pertains throughout the west + the nature of the prosperity. That exists in the west along with increasing standard of living, + the lack of necessity of a ‘strong man’ +. The fact that there are real possibilities of a change of. Government/leader ever. Few years , and soforth. So maybe that’s what Putin does not like and is prepared to do ANYTHING to show his disgust for all things West. So the issue is how does the ‘West ‘ stop him . Through negotiation; be nice to him ; develop strong trade links or meet LIKE WITH LIKE ??



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