Hamas strike on Israel

Looking increasingly likely that Bob Vylan will be charged with 'terrorist' offences.

They really are in pretty poor shape as a society if this is how they handle an ongoing genocide (and one that their own government and media refuse to even admit is happening).

The Jewish option is live and it is failing. Jews of a Zionist mindset will never allow an independent Palestinian state to flourish. We don't know whether Arabs wouldn't allow equal rights to Jews as it's never been done yet. I can see it would be hard for Arabs to afford equal respect to Jews given how Israel has treated them. But a Jewish state in the M/east is unlikely to ever work due to Zionism.

Well it's a religious idealism from both sides that's at the root of the problems between them, so basically you're trying to set goal posts that suit your line only.

We can't go back to 1948. A quote from the poster I was replying to re mentioning religion not being relative.

"The Jewish option is live and it is failing. Jews of a Zionist mindset will never allow an independent Palestinian state to flourish. We don't know whether Arabs wouldn't allow equal rights to Jews as it's never been done yet".

Israelis are mentioned as Jews or zionists, the others arabs. Trying to set a discussion on his terms only.

sounds like a good plan. It may work, it may end up with tens of thousands of dead people, but hey, let’s give it a lash

Apparently Israel are angling for a 'sort of' ceasefire with only 10 hostages released and the option to recommence the war at any point - Hamas want to release all the hostages in exchange for a permanent ceasefire and humanitarian aid being allowed in.

The legions of Zio bots on social media have been saying for months that releasing all the hostages would result in the end of the bombing of Gaza and the slaughter.

"Shelling used as a means of maintaining order"? FFS..that is murderous, callous insanity!

Hamas want to end the conflict on their terms, that is the problem.

It doesn't justify anything Israel does - and that has to be made clear, I'm not supporting Isarel - but they're content to allow people in Gaza to continue to die until they get what they want, as the defeated force.

They took a huge gamble on Oct 7th, it's led to this, and the decimation of Hamas/Hezbollah. If they had even the vaguest inkling of care for Gaza, they would surrender unconditionally.

But they don't. They are completely content to see this madness continue and wait it out until Israel bends due to international pressure, basically the same gameplan they had in launching Oct 7th.

There needs to some acknowledgement that's part of the problem and it continues to give Israel a veneer of legitimacy to hide behind however shakey and transparent.

Hamas surrenders, disarms, and gives up power - Israel is stripped of any excuse whatsoever. But Hamas continued insistence of only wanting peace on agreeable terms is not helping.

I am open to correction if I am wrong, but I very much think that is a big part of the problem.

But they are the defeated force, and the defeated Government of Gaza.

It doesn't strike me as unreasonable that Israel insists they give up power and disarm under the circumstances, regardless of how completely unacceptable Israeli actions are in pursing that goal.

I don't think it's realistic to paint the situation as Hamas willing for a ceasefire and Israel refusing, it's more complicated than that.

Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany refused to surrender when defeat was on their doorstep and look where that led. Should the Allies have allowed both Government's to survive in the interest of peace?

Another set of regimes that were content to see their countries and people burn for no reason whatsoever other than a refusal to accept defeat.

Israel bears responsibility for what it's doing, but Hamas does too for being willing to sacrifice every soul in Gaza to ensure its own survival.

'Surrender' is not an option. Hamas is as much a popular movement or an ideology as an actual physical fighting force. They are not going to sign a document or attend a ceremony where they agree to 'surrender' to Israel - it will be described by all sides as a mutually agreed ceasefire, along the lines of the IRA - UK ceasefire in 1994.

The IRA is completely different. It was not the Government of Northern Ireland.

The very fact you're saying "surrender is not an option" is basically supporting the Hamas position of refusing to surrender unless on their terms.

If you want to drag the IRA into it, and again, they were not the Government of Northern Ireland nor were they supported by same or in the south, imagine if the IRA said their redline issue for the GFA was they be allowed remain active and in control of all their weapons.

That wouldn't have worked.