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Unsolved Irish Mysteries.

18990919294

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 90 ✭✭Crakepottle?


    There's one item in the narrative that doesn't make sense. Annie was, according to some witnesses, about to end the relationship with the suspect but also to confess to the fellow's girlfriend what had been going on. You would think that she would be happy to draw a line under the "terrible mistake " and not involve the girlfriend at all. Especially when the fellow had, allegedly, a reputation for violence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭FrankN1


    Should there be a separate thread for this case? It's taking up the whole thread at this point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 91 ✭✭Widows Son


    I would make sense to warn the girlfriend what sort of man she was with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    Was Annie blaming the boyfriend she was having a affair/relationship/friendship with ...was she not a willing participant in this affair/relationship/friendship or was she coerced to participate



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Maybe the girlfriend had already found out what was going on. Maybe she should also be a suspect.

    Im not surprised at all that nothing was found at the house. Burying a body in a suburban garden wouldnt be likely.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,703 ✭✭✭Packrat


    The thrust of your post seems to be that its not a great deal of damage. I can tell you after a couple of decades of being a contractor (in the past) that any cutting, breaking or removing of floors WRECKS a house in terms of the work that has to be done to put it right. Its expensive and takes time. Dust damage is appalling.

    On something I looked at recently *as an observer, the decision was made to refurbish sash windows rather than replace on the basis that the wrecking/dust caused by removing the old ones would require the entire house to be redecorated.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32 padraig1963


    I agree his then "real" girlfriend now falls into the suspect category, though an unlikely one compared to him. I wonder was she the lady the prime suspect eventually married?. Anyone know for certain?

    Seems his now wife was from a family in Meath with a lot of land/golf course. Its her name the 400 euro a night property was granted permission under.

    By what we know of Annies character I would imagine she threatened to tell PBs then girlfriend about their affair partly to get back at him for hitting her and also to warn the other girl, if she hadn't already known , that he was violent. Affairs aren't ever black or white are they? It could have been a love/hate, coercive,controlling relationship. Maybe Annie was partly to blame at the start, she did express guilt about it to her friends, but realised she needed to get out of it. Someone just didn't let her.

    We still don't know for certain who was actually living in the house on Monastery Walk, or who was away that particular weekend in 1993. So not much point us speculating if a suburban house was a viable site to kill someone and hide a body or not. But the Guards do know who was there in 1993 so you have to believe they made a valued judgement. If it was mostly where the old utility /garage area was, maybe they thought that the family spade or pick, might have been used elsewhere up the hills and brought back to the house with some trace of forensics that would stain the old layer of concrete floor. Who knows, but worth it in my opinion even only if it was to put the frighteners on a very plausible prime suspect and get tongues wagging, where before they had lied for him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 Tiddles2222


    Yes, he went on to marry this girlfriend. I suspected she may have come from a well off background. I also suspect that he did not want his relationship with her scuppered as she brought many assets to the table. He most certainly did not want Annie blabbing a guilty conscience to her. I also notice the person of interest is a shadowy figure in the background, almost as if he has chosen not to be seen.

    As for the search in Clondalkin, maybe the family had gone on holidays around Saint Patrick's Day and the property presented an opportunity. The garden looks full of ground ivy, pretty but one would hardly notice if it had been disturbed and also tools may have to be borrowed and replaced and may have had soil dna from elsewhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Maybe I could have worded it differently and said "If" the excavation was limited to the garage and side passage….

    The garage area is a single storey lean to extension to the side of the house, leading to a side passage to the rear garden, all outside the envelope of the house.

    The only comings and goings I have seen in news photos and videos have been through the double garage doors. If the dig was limited to that area it would have been sealed off, plastic taped over all windows and doors to the main house.

    Paul Healey in the video link says they were "Digging in under the new rear extension" I took that as digging down outside and in under the foundation and floor of the extension. If that is the case then there is serious building work to be done, underpinning and all that goes with it. But if there was anything to be found there it would surely have been found during the building in 2011/12. Everything should, and probably will, be returned to how it was at no cost to the occupants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 305 ✭✭NoeldeBournaix


    Id imagine it's not an easy task for one person to move a body from one location to another without been seen. Unless Annie was killed in a private house with garage access maybe with no one else around?

    She could also have been killed in an isolated rural area if she went there with somebody in a car and a row ensued.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32 padraig1963


    Having only recently heard, if its true, that Annies own car, bought by her father John was parked on Monastery Walk, I wonder did it play any role in her disappearance. Who had access to the keys, were they left loose on a hall table in the Brady family house? Did PB borrow it that faithful day and rock up to Annies, saying " let's go for a spin up the hills, I'll teach you how to drive this thing"?

    Wonder what happened to her car!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭oceanman


    hardly worth starting a new thread now….given that noting significant was found at the dig site i would imagine this story will peter out soon enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 90 ✭✭Crakepottle?


    A lot of reputational damage to the suspect, his family and the business in which they are involved. Is that justified? Looks like that will never come to light now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 243 ✭✭AttentionBebe


    Maybe just a separate thread for obsessing about damage that may or may not have occured to a house, and the gardaí's imaginary refusal to put it all right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    Maybe also a thread for those posters who think the primary suspect is actually the real victim here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,898 ✭✭✭Hangdogroad


    I dont think her husband pulled the trigger, or was present, but the AGS might be of the opinion that he hired someone to kill her and make it look like a robbery gone wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 911 ✭✭✭csirl


    Dont have any links, but my recollection was that he was a senior official in the Revenue Commissioners and was at work at the time - attending meetings etc with multiple people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭robwen


    Thumbprint could help solve Grace Livingstone cold case murder as husband laid to restYoung man was seen in the estate by several people, but never traced or identified

    CATHERINE FEGAN

    As James Livingstone made his way into the bedroom of his house in Malahide, the scene that greeted him would change his life forever.

    His 56-year-old wife Grace, the mother of his two children, was lying face down on the bed. Her feet and hands had been bound and her mouth was gagged with adhesive tape.

    She had been shot in the back of the head with a shotgun Mr Livingstone owned, which he kept in the house and was later found in the garden.

    It was December 1992 and the case, of the high-ranking tax investigator who owned the very weapon that was used to kill his wife became the most high-profile murder of its time.

    The initial investigation identified Mr Livingstone as the main suspect, but no evidence emerged to support garda suspicions. There was no sign of a burglary and no apparent motive was uncovered. No one was ever prosecuted for the murder.

    Mr Livingstone has always protested his innocence. He was with a coll­eague at the time his wife was killed, arriving home at about 5.30pm. He has always contended she was killed because of his work as a special investigator pursuing underworld figures for tax, and he forwarded names of suspects to gardaí.

    More than 30 years later, the murder of Mrs Livingstone remains one of Ireland's most unsettling mysteries - an enduring cold case marked by missteps, suspicion and controversy.

    Mr Livingstone was laid to rest this week. His death marks another sad milestone in the quest to uncover who killed his wife and why.

    On the morning of December 7, 1992, Mr Livingstone left to go to work. Mrs Livingstone went to mass at 9am and did some shopping on the way home.

    The couple and their two children lived at 37 The Moorings, in a small cul-de-sac. Daughter Tara, then 22, was in France.

    Mrs Livingstone chatted with a neighbour in the driveway shortly before noon. Another neighbour, Anne Watchhorn, who lived across the road, spoke with her for 20 minutes on the porch before 2pm. At 2.10pm, Ms Watchhorn went home and Ms Livingstone went back inside.

    Ena Marisa Brennan, then 17, lived a few doors down from the Livingstones in number 32.

    She walked home from school with friends and stopped to chat before turning into the cul-de-sac.

    It was around 4.30pm. She noticed a young man walking towards them. He turned into the cul-de-sac. He wore a beige trenchcoat, black boots and had mousey, collar-length hair. She thought he was about 20.

    Her friend, Hilary Maguire, noticed him too. She later said he was around six-foot-tall, his hair was blond and the long coat was "fawn”.

    Ena Marisa said she overtook the man outside number 39, 40 or 41 and continued on past the Livingstones' house towards her home.

    When she looked back, he was gone.

    Ena Marisa's mother, also named Ena, was in her kitchen browning meat for a casserole for the evening meal when she heard a loud noise. She wasn't sure about the time. At first she told gardaí she heard it between 3.45pm and 4.15pm, but later said it was 4.20pm because she had looked at the cooker clock.

    At number 36, the Livingstones' immediate neighbour, Ann Egan, was packing away her Christmas shopping when she heard a "very loud booming noise” that "echoed through the house”. She put the time at around 4.30pm.

    Margaret O'Sullivan, who lived on a street parallel to The Moorings, heard the noise about 4.30pm too.

    Across the road from the Livingstones, Philip McGivney, a landscape gardener, finished work felling treetops at number 27.

    He got into his van, but had to turn it, so drove into the driveway across the road.

    As he drove in, his headlights shone into the porch and he saw a man standing inside. He said the man was in his early 20s with dark collar-length hair and of thin build. He put the time at around 4.40pm.

    A short time later, shortly after 5.30pm, Mr Livingstone pulled into his driveway and turned the key in his front door. The house was quiet and in darkness.

    The bedroom upstairs was dark too. Mrs Livingstone was lying dead on the bed.

    Black insulating tape had been used to bind her hands and feet and a strip of it covered her mouth. She had been shot in the head with a shotgun that was later found in a hedge outside. Her husband immediately raised the alarm.

    A local doctor who went to the house made an assessment that Mrs Livingstone had been dead for around two hours, but state pathologist John Harbison, who arrived five hours later, thought the time of death was closer to 6pm.

    Nobody who had come to the house after Mr Livingstone raised the alarm reported smelling any cordite, which would have lingered in the air after the gun was fired.

    Prof Harbison said later he could not argue with the opinion of the doctor who had pronounced Ms Livingstone dead in his assertion that she was killed at around 4pm.

    Mr Livingstone was a keen outdoor sports enthusiast and owned eight guns. Of the eight, four were unlicensed. Almost three months after his wife's murder, he was arrested for unlawful possession of a firearm.

    While in custody, investigators allegedly showed him photos of his wife's body and made cruel comments about his children. He was released without charge.

    In 1994, a review of the original murder inquiry was carried out by Superintendent Tom Connolly and given to the garda's crime and security branch.

    The likelihood that Mr Livingstone had murdered his wife was "very slim”, the review found.

    One of the key issues highlighted was the existence of a thumbmark found on the adhesive tape used to bind Mrs Livingstone.

    The mark was discovered on the sticky side of the tape by garda technical experts and extensive comparisons with fingerprint records at garda headquarters failed to find a match.

    Supt Connolly also revisited five charity workers who collected money in The Moorings between 4pm and 6pm on the day of the murder. Their fingerprints had been taken, but not from the correct finger, according to the superintendent.

    Only four were available when the review team went to re-take them. The fifth had moved back to England - he too was tracked down. His charity colleagues accused him of stealing - which he denied - and he had convictions for theft.

    He proved a negative match for the fingerprints.

    Supt Connolly's review concluded that Mrs Livingstone was murdered in her bedroom between 4.30pm and 5pm. Mr Livingstone accused gardaí of having an "irrational fixation”, and the family sued the State.

    In April 2008, the case was settled before completion in the High Court, and a statement was issued to the family, saying Mr Livingstone "is entitled to the full and unreserved presumption of innocence”.

    Last Tuesday, Mr Livingstone was buried beside his wife and their daughter Maeve, who died at 10 weeks old.

    The case officially remains open, but is classified as cold, with periodical reviews by gardaí yielding no new leads or suspects.

    The thumbmark on the tape has never been identified. The man neighbours say they saw with collar-length hair and a long coat was never traced.

    An Garda Síochána was contacted for comment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 617 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    Interesting, was it not common practice to test for cordite/gunpowder residue etc. on the hands and clothes of suspects, would have ruled him in or out I would have thought?

    Also just goes to show the unreliability of witnesses. Most try to act in good faith and help as much as they can but you only realise the gravity after the fact.

    The fingerprint is an intriguing detail, and the time of death dispute is also.

    Having unregistered guns in the home though and as a special investigator, that's extremely strange and suspicious, especially in Ireland which is particularly gun averse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,220 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Very odd that the car was never mentioned in any news reports at the time. Would that not be easy enough for the gardai to follow up - tax office, insurance, write-off, abandoned, found burned out etc? Unless she had sold it to one of the family, she could have needed funds for rent or college fees.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32 padraig1963


    Annie disappeared before she could ever use the car her father bought for her so presumably it sat on Monastery Walk until Annies mother and father sold it or gave it away when they were over searching for herI suppose. She hadn't been driving it, as seemingly she couldn't drive stick shift and was waiting to do lessons and pass a test I presume. Heres a cutting from the Tribune in 1998 when John McCarrick expressed his dissatisfaction at the Guards not doing forensics on two cars. Maybe one was Annies. Love to know what either of the brothers was driving at the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 305 ✭✭NoeldeBournaix


    Makes you wonder was Annie's car the "borrowed car" her father was referring to. Also, would be interesting to know which car was used to pick up Nancy at the airport. Did the brothers not have their own cars back then? If they did, why the need to borrow one and rent another. Maybe the partner(s) had a car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32 padraig1963


    I thought so myself, could quite likely have been Annies own car. Either way a lot of potential forensic evidence completely overlooked it seems because of one dodgy alibi covering the real whereabouts of the suspect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 305 ✭✭NoeldeBournaix


    Interesting to read that a file will be prepared for the DPP in the Annie McCarrick case. Although I believe files were prepared for the DPP in other missing persons cases too, Fiona Pender, Deirdre Jacob.

    "Privately, gardaí acknowledge the outcome of the chief suspect’s arrest, and the search in Clondalkin is a disappointment. A source said nothing of significant evidential value was found during the excavation.A murder charge remains elusive, given Ms McCarrick’s remains have not been found and the suspect denied all involvement in her disappearance and death.

    “The chief suspect can be rearrested if new evidence comes to light,” the source said, “but at present there are no major developments in this investigation. But a file will be prepared for the DPP.”

    Gardaí will also have to rebuild the parts of the Clondalkin house and garden they ripped apart in the search for Ms McCarrick’s remains, with the State footing the bill."

    https://m.independent.ie/news/as-new-search-ends-in-disappointment-is-it-too-late-to-catch-annie-mccarricks-killer/a720232945.html

    https://archive.ph/7HI7v



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭robwen


    Convicted murderer Richard ­Satchwell will have to foot a bill of at least €100,000 if he is to rebuild the Youghal town house torn apart by gardaí as they searched for his wife's body.

    Had they not found Ms Satchwell's body, gardaí would have been liable for the cost of repairs to the property — which garda sources said could run to between €100,000 to €200,000. However, because the damage to the property was justified to retrieve Tina's body, the State is no longer liable for those repairs.

    The case contrasts with the fruitless search for Annie McCarrick's remains at a house in Clondalkin, involving diggers and Kango hammers. The State is liable for the repairs through the State Claims Agency, which manages compensation claims for damage to property caused by gardaí executing search warrants.

    https://m.independent.ie/news/richard-satchwell-liable-for-repair-bill-of-up-to-200000-at-youghal-murder-house/a856316592.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 424 ✭✭Gangu




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 ✭✭Orban6




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sultan of Bling


    So if they had found a body, the current owners would have to foot the bill?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,887 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭Banjo Carney


    No, because the current owner have nothing to do with Annie's disappearance. It's different with Satchwell he was found guilty of murdering Tina and burying her body in the house.



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