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Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 14/08/25*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Surely a lot of these cases could be decided in a few hours.

    If you have no ID and you are not cooperating then you are rejected.

    If you were genuine why wouldn't you be forthcoming with identifying yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,645 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    You still have to be housed for months though, getting them to wherever they came from with no ID could take ages.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Sure but it would be the message it would send.

    If you turn up to claim asylum and do not cooperate in helping identify yourself then you are rejected automatically.

    Build a detention centre and nobody gets housed outside it until they are approved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,645 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Are there any plans to build detention centres? Even if there are we're years and years off having one. We can't build anything in this country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    No idea if there are any plans to build one, but it would make sense.

    I don't agree that it would take years to be honest.

    We can move fairly quickly in emergencies like during COVID.

    This is visually becoming a problem and they can't ignore it for much longer.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,998 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Whatever the solution is, it isn’t a detention centre. You can’t lock people up for no reason.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    They would be placed in a detention centre for turning up without ID and refusing to help identify themselves and therefore being bogus asylum seekers.

    They would be free to identify themselves and allow us to work with their home country on sending them home.

    It is safer than just allowing them in and housing them when we don't know who they are.

    Someone knocked on your door in the night and said they had nowhere to go and refused to answer any questions you have.

    Would you invite them in, give them food, a bed and pocket money for months or years.

    I am guessing the answer is no, so why would you expect the country to do it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,454 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I said this before, but …. no-one is forcing any of these people to come or to remain here. They are free to leave at any time and try their luck elsewhere!

    I'm all for a holding area pending decision of their claim. It would be in their own interests to cooperate fully to have that claim decided on quickly.

    If they don't like it, they can get back on a plane to wherever they arrived from. It should be very easy to identify that considering all flights require ID and boarding passes to get on the plane, and all of this data is recorded by the airlines. It might need some legislative changes to get access to that data but I can't see the airlines objecting too strongly - it's in their interests to not be carrying chancers and illegals too!

    Seeing as these people are generally arriving from EU countries and we keep getting told how key and influential we are, I'm sure our politicians will have no problem getting our "friends" on the continent to agree to take them back. They could then repeat the same process with the airlines to send them on to the previous port etc.

    All things are possible - even the previously unthinkable! Covid proved that when we locked down entire countries for weeks/months. Before that it was the bending/bypassing/ignoring of previously inviolable "rules" to save banks in the Financial Crisis.

    All that's missing is political will, but that can change too. It just needs enough people to say "enough" and make their views known through (peaceful and lawful!) protests and lobbying of representatives, but sooner or later it happens - even in Ireland!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,645 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Pretty sure most come from the open border with the UK these days so not sure your unrealistic airline idea works for most of them anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,454 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Garda/Immigration stops of buses/trains from NI will sort that - they did it before remember. We've also sent them back over that same border too.

    You don't even need to catch every one - stop enough of them and the word will get out.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,235 ✭✭✭Jizique




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,645 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    How will it stop it? They can still claim asylum.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,998 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Nope. It was a rhetorical device, not a lie. Allusion it’s called.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,454 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Holding area, or "reception centres" if you prefer, at Dublin/Cork/Shannon Airport, Dundalk, Rosslaire.

    Large military style tents (as were being used previously) to house them in these locations. Basic food and medical supports only.

    If their claim is valid, they are processed through the next steps.

    If not, they're sent back to wherever they arrived from.

    If they don't like that, they can avail of that second option at any point - but the only ones being allowed any further into the country should be legitimate and verified.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,645 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    You'd still have to hold them for ages while you try and get some kind of travel documents for them from whatever country they're from.

    Are children and babies put in these camps too? Because the IPAS beside me seems to have plenty of women and kids.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,454 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    You're wasting your time trying the "think of the children" angle with me I'm afraid. Their parents are the ones to blame there, not the country seeking to protect its borders as is it right.

    I have no problem with the idea of holding them until their claim is decided. They're free to leave at any point - just not into our country unless they are cleared to do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,645 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Yeah but i don't think you're going to ever see children in detention centres, do you?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,454 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Reception centre... It's all about how you position it.

    And no one is being detained under my proposal. They can leave at any time! - just not into our communities unless they have a legitimate right to be there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,645 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    How can they leave at any time with no ID? So yes they're being detained until the irish government figures out how to deport them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,454 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Guess they shouldn't have disposed of that ID along the way then really.

    Again, this would not be our fault. The only ones to blame are those attempting to circumvent the controls.

    Take your chances, live with the consequences.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,645 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Ok but do you think we'll be seeing children in detention centres in the next say 10 years?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,454 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Stranger things have happened. Would you have imagined in 2018 that most of the world would come to a halt 2 years later, or that in Ireland people would be limited to 2.5km travel limits?

    Or even 2 years ago, that places like Sweden would be doing a complete about turn on the issue, or that other countries are implementing measures that previously would have been considered unthinkable.

    I'm not saying that Ireland will lead the way - we're already trailing behind the trend - but it's only a matter of time before "extreme measures" (as it'll no doubt be viewed by entities like advocacy groups and NGOs) follow here just as they have in other countries.

    The situation of the past few years just can't continue. It's affecting everything and the consequences are becoming more visible by the month. It's only a matter of time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭acequion


    What you propose makes perfect sense but requires political will. And we don't have sensible politicians in Ireland. And zero opposition to the current useless lot. So as always things will have to get disastrous, something indeed along the lines of the pandemic or 2008 banking collapse, before we see any real change in policy.Unfortunately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,699 ✭✭✭tom23


    let’s just do what Denmark have done.

    https://m.independent.ie/opinion/eoin-omalley-citywest-deal-shows-the-state-is-in-the-asylum-business-for-the-long-haul-but-the-opposite-approach-is-working-for-denmark/a1041345852.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,456 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    The Soc Dems and Labour at the open borders protest yesterday, it was a stroke of luck that they were kept out of government because yesterday proved where both of them stand on immigration.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    Then they probably shouldn't flush their passports down the toilet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,736 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Ask Hungary? LOL .

    Barbed wire fence and soldiers would be their reply .

    What makes you think Ireland should or would follow that regime in anything ?

    Poland is swamped with Ukrainians so can't take refugees.

    You talk about the Swiss and 24 hours processing for 4 African countries ..do they deport those they refuse straight away ?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,529 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    We have also received loads of UKR refugees, at 21 per 1,000 people.

    The Poles are at 26 per 1,000, a bit ahead of us.

    Not alone have we received loads of AS, we have been very generous to UKR refugees who are BOTP.

    image.png


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,529 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home/sem/aktuell/24h-verfahren.html

    Is your French or German any good? Any mention of deportation?

    What I have read is that the 24hr processing is reducing applications:

    • Reduced Application Numbers:The 24-hour procedure has been shown to reduce the number of asylum applications from these countries, as some individuals may choose not to pursue an application when faced with a faster process. 
    • Extended to All Federal Centers:What began as a pilot project in Zurich has now been extended to all federal asylum centers. 
    • Positive Initial Results:The Swiss authorities have deemed the 24-hour procedure a success in reducing applications from individuals with little chance of obtaining asylum. 


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