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Reduction of fossil-fuel emissions: what's the point?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,700 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    No, it shouldn't. Ireland should be looking to reduce reliance on fossil fuels as much as is possible.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,269 ✭✭✭paulbok


    Yes they should, but as that isn't going to happen for some time, why pay premium pricing to import oil/gas when we could produce some of it ourselves. Then phase out that production as we build more renewables and storage?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    You find it strange that normal people want to live normal modern lives and not retrograde their standards of living down to the levels of medieval peasants?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Why would we need to turn into "medieval peasants"?
    Surely the first step to solving the problem is to ease off on the unsustainable consumption predominantly in the western world?

    We don't have to live in caves or use donkey & carts - that's just something put forwards by those who simply don't want to make any meaningful changes.

    However, the modern western way of life is simply not sustainable and while humanity overall may not give much of a toss, those following us will face an even bigger burden. The longer we leave it to attempt to solve it, the more difficult it will be

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    Because the same environmental movement has a strong Luddite streak to it which hates science and technology

    Just look at the attitude towards nuclear and datacenters/AI and infrastructure

    And that’s before you consider the bizzare economic ideals of the pinko lefties who migrated from the red to the green banner



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    So it's the fault of the "environmental movement" that you don't want to do anything to lead a sustainable lifestyle?
    ok so 🙄

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,530 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the one thing i find amazing is the attitude of 'we shouldn't do anything about fossil fuel emissions until we are certain that fossil fuel emissions are to blame for global warming'.

    for several reasons - you can only be certain after it has happened, after it is too late.

    also, you don't go to the expense of putting fire exits, fire doors, extinguishers etc. in buildings only when you know the building is going to catch fire. you don't insure your house or car only when you know it's going to catch fire. you take action on possible catastrophic outcomes when you're even a little bit concerned about them.

    even if a climate change denier thought the chances of the scientists being right was only 10%, does that 10% not give them any pause for thought? if they thought that there was a 10% chance of their house burning down, they'd sell it and move.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,700 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    I didn’t say that

    The problem with the green environmental movement is that just like now extinct communist movement they have bizzare and daft policies which normal people can smell for the bullshit it is

    They ain’t wrong about climate change being a problem but their solutions are up there with injecting oneself with bleach to cure covid



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,700 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    This is just pathetic, honstly. There are plenty of sensible environmental policies. The "environmental movement" is not a hive mind. Some of them are idiots, some of them are NIMBYs but plenty are sane people with reasonable ideas.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    And yet support for this “ism” has collapsed even here in Europe as soon as the crazier elements got more vocal about the crazier of policies

    never mind the rest of the world who we share same globe with who either scratch head in confusion or just laugh at first world problems



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,700 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Where has it collapsed? Let's see some sources.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,700 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Like the one in the UK where we elected the greenest government in British history?

    Any chance you can actually back this up?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    The same government that does not go on a crusade against nuclear power or datacenters/AI?

    Thanks for furthering my point that scientists are not wrong about climate change but many of the environmentalist political and social policies to address this are just insane

    Perhaps it’s starting to dawn on some to discard the more extreme Luddite anti growth elements



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,700 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    So you've nothing then. Thanks for confirming.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,700 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Moving the goalposts is not nuance. If you want to spout denier nonsense, go for it. Just don't expect to convince anyone if you make claims that are patently wrong.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    Reading comprehension ain’t a strong point either I see

    I have on multiple occasions in last few posts made it clear the scientists ain’t wrong while pointing out at the bad apples in the social and political basket that the environmentalist movement is

    Mod Edit: Warned for attacking the poster

    Post edited by Necro on


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,548 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    How is the current British government - which measures only carbon generated in Britain, and ignores air travel and imports - greener than, say, an elected 19th century government?

    One of the biggest dangers here - apart from letting discussions get sidetracked by conspiracy theorists - is in giving pat's on the back that aren't remotely deserved



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,548 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    That's an excellent answer to a post that didn't really deserve any answer (and unsurprisingly didn't appreciate it either)

    As a very simple example, deciding as a society that we don't need a new SUV every couple of years and that a small car could make do for 15+ years instead, or deciding that we're ok with paying a bit more for our fruit or to have our offices cleaned because we're not flying cheap labour in from halfway around the world, would both have appreciable impacts while not dragging us into mediaeval lifestyles.

    But as I say, the number one thing that's missing - unforgivably so - is any sort of education around real, individual, carbon footprints. That's the starting point for me. And until we get to the starting point, we're going nowhere



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,965 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Reduction of fossil-fuel emissions: what's the point?

    Not sure there's any point as we only contribute x amount to global warming, which is mostly driven by the natural cycle of the planet. Planet Earth has been warming up and cooling down, warming up and cooling down, warming up … since the beginning of time.

    Yes, mankind contributes to fossil fuel emissions, and we (some countries) do try to reduce them, but what's the point if the planet goes through the motions anyway?

    Volcanoes 🌋



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,807 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    well if you want your kids, grand kids, nieces and nephews to have the ability to survive on the planet, so yes, there is bloody point, but taxing and indebting the bollcoks out of folks is not gonna work, states have to seriously step up, take on a serious amount of debt, and take their fingers out of their holes, if we can create billions and trillions in debt for military purposes,we can also do the exact same for environmental reasons!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,633 ✭✭✭✭Water John




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭purplefields


    I normally avoid climate discussions on boards because of flat-earthism/general stupidity.

    This will be a drive by posting.

    To answer the question, well too much damage certainly has already been done, with much of it 'baked in'. It is too late. However, to stop it being even worse we have to reduce/eliminate greenhouse gas emissions.

    Like if I have my car smashed up with lump hammer, it is best to stop before the windscreen gets smashed, rather than just carry on anyway because it's only that doors don't open properly.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,548 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    "Volcanic eruptions are often discussed in the context of climate change because they release CO2 and other gases into our atmosphere. However, the impact of human activities on the carbon cycle far exceeds that of all the world's volcanoes combined, by more than 100 times."

    What do volcanoes have to do with climate change? - NASA Science

    There's no evidence for the assertions in your post unfortunately. Above is a quick example of how you're wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,931 ✭✭✭macraignil


    "We'll have to at least double the carbon tax..."

    I'm not convinced carbon taxes are the best way to convince the general public to cut fossil fuel emissions. The cost of a non fossil fuel reliant alternative may well be outside the economic capacity of many so by taxing simply on carbon emissions you maintain the person not able to get an electric car for example in a greater level of poverty with no real benefit to the environment. These taxes hit the least well off in society most.

    We also have daft strategies like cutting production in our own methods of keeping grass fed cattle in the least environmentally damaging means of producing beef globally, to simply end up with a much higher price in beef, which will very likely lead to an increase in deforestation in other parts of the world to make room for cattle grazing there or even worse with the industialised production of animal feed for beef reared on feed lots with crops like soya bean grown on the former rain forest. This will be most damaging in areas of tropical rain forest that soak up vast quantities of CO2 and help regularise climate patterns in some of the poorest areas with some of the most vulnerable populations in the world.

    Climate change is happening and we need to maintain food production to avoid mass starvation on a global scale so to attack food production in this country in the name of reducing emissions when the net effect is global emissions increasing and the absorption of these emissions being reduced makes no sense.

    Post edited by macraignil on


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,548 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Yeah, I think carbon taxes are part of the solution, but I don't think a blanket statement like "We need to double the carbon tax" is it.

    Education is more the key. I mean, take electric cars. To build a new small one is maybe 10 tonnes of carbon. So just switching to electric is only part of the solution, and by buying an electric SUV on PCP so you upgrade every three years, you're doing more harm than good. (And in fact, given the amount of lithium in them, there's a strong suggestion a small plug-in hybrid is better than pure electric).

    I suppose it's similar to how parking fines usen't to be a deterrent because some people had the scope to pay them and not worry (or even recharge to their company). Penalty points, though, worked. Ideally you'd have some sort of carbon points scheme - but that's probably completely infeasible except in places like China, where personal freedom is a strange concept.

    Agree fully on the beef strategy btw - it just shows how we're not properly engaging in this, either for lack of knowledge or lack of desire. (Probably a mix of both - I spoke to a person involved in Fine Gael who fobbed off climate change with the volcanoes myth noted above, and a vague promise of hydrogen cars). The solution to the beef problem is to eat less beef. In the western world we eat more than we need to.



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