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Cork Area Commuter Rail (CACR)

135

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,437 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Wouldn't new stations and new fleet depot go to initial public consultation before even consulting ABP?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    It's only a consultation. Probably to find out what does or doesn't need an RO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,437 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I doubt that kind of consultation requires a formal notification on the ABP website. The fact that it is stated as a RO means they clearly think that is what is required. And ABP are unlikely to let someone take their limited time to ask a series of high level "what if" questions. The consultation has to be based on a relatively defined project brief.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Yep, it's strange alright. Let's see, all will hopefully become clearer in future weeks.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,709 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41651816.html


    Details on the 8 stations coming Wednesday



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 540 ✭✭✭TheSunIsShining


    I guess it would push the station even further from the city centre - it might only be 500 or 600m but it might look even further? Second, are there plans to develop that property and if there are, does that mean it would be lost as an option anyway?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    It definitely would push the overall station East, but we're also expecting new bridges and development south of the river so it might not be that huge an issue, particularly if/when a tram were integrated. There is a new plan to not just develop that area but even a plan for consultation now to run a street down the middle of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 540 ✭✭✭TheSunIsShining


    Wow. A street parallel to Horgan's Quay? Or right angles to it? You have the link by any chance?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17 EVBusFan




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Thanks, got there ahead of me.

    Not sure how I feel about this one, because I'd like the area to be well built up as commercial around the station rather than only residential. But I guess residential is the big priority right now. And at least they retain the waterfront.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 540 ✭✭✭TheSunIsShining


    Thanks. I got as far as the City Council site but couldn't get as far as seeing the plans. I assume the Area Excluded, as marked on the map, will be buildings? Think what is proposed would make it very difficult to move the station eastwards? Maybe the missed opportunity is to move the station eastwards as part of an overall development and build over the new station?

    As a matter of history, I think you can see the old alignment where they first brought the Youghal/Cobh line into Kent. The Waters Street bridge used be further up the Lower Road closer to the station and I think used run through what was the petrol station years ago and now looks like a forecourt with parking. You can see evidence of it too in the station wall as there are different blocks in the wall across from there, about 50m further up which would make sense as the line curved in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Buildings are what's intended nearer the water side yep. No firm plans yet, and this road (if approved) would be a critical enabler of that. I think what's proposed could certainly make it difficult to move the main station entrance East, but not necessarily the platforms and shelter building. There would be no reason I can think of to remove the existing buildings, you could just choose to not use the current curved platforms and instead only use the straight sections further East maybe.

    Right now we have several fairly exposed straight platforms to the East that are used by commuter services, and two covered curved platforms to the West. I'm just suggesting we make the Eastern ones the "main" platforms and roof the whole lot with a canopy (platforms and tracks) rather than having isolated small "platform" canopies as at present.

    I never realised the Waters Street bridge was the second attempt at the joining of the lines and removal of Summerhill Station!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 540 ✭✭✭TheSunIsShining


    There is mention here of the bridge being over Grattan Hill and Hargraves Quay. A Google of Hargraves Quay Cork brings up an Examiner article which says it was filled in when they rebuilt the original Penrose Quay station as Kent Station. It also mentions that there is a belief the bridge was moved and reused!

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/homeandgardens/arid-30903456.html

    I also know I read an article somewhere else too about the original bridge being realigned - assume the new alignment was less curved and so trains could go faster. But like I said. It makes sense as that old petrol station location on the lower road across from Kent is built in a space that was in between other older buildings and where a curved line would have gone over from there you can 100% see different stones in the side wall of the station. They are visible even on Google street maps view.

    Cork has some history in terms of trains. I'd say that not many people even know Kent Station isn't the original station never mind knowing that there used be the Summerhill Station over the tunnel entrance!

    Post edited by TheSunIsShining on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84 ✭✭sheff_


    You can see that old alignment in the 25 inch mapping

    IMG_0994.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 540 ✭✭✭TheSunIsShining


    Brilliant. Thanks for that. Remarkable really how much could be achieved 150 years ago when you just know it would take so long to move an alignment like that today...



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    150 years ago we didn't have planning or environmental laws and most people didn't have any property rights.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Anyone have an idea of what we might see tomorrow?

    Ballynoe (Cobh)

    Carrigtohill West

    Waterrock

    Dunkettle (North Esk)

    Tivoli

    Dublin Hill (Kilbarry)

    Monard

    Blarney

    All eight of these?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    8 stations



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,536 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    All 8 seemingly but you'd imagine there'll be a phased approach to delivery.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Yep we already had Kilbarry and Monard in the 2004/2005 announcement (when only Midleton and Carrigtwohill proceeded).

    I hope they announce details and dates for all 8 and not just the first 3 basically. I suspect/fear we get something similar again - details for 3 and a vague announcement of an intention for 5 others. We will see.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,709 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Get stuck in lads

    https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/about-us/iarnrod-eireann-projects-and-investments/cork-area-commuter-rail



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    All very exciting. A few key points for those actually willing to engage rather than just waffle here.

    Feedback submissions form is here: https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/about-us/iarnrod-eireann-projects-and-investments/cork-area-commuter-rail/Cork-Area-Commuter-Rail-Feedback-Form

    Deadline for submissions is 18th July


    In person engagement events as follows:

    24/06/2025

    Kent Station - Travel Centre on Platform 4

    16:00 - 20:00hrs

    25/06/2025

    Blarney - Blarney GAA Club T23 KP73

    16:00 - 20:00hrs

    26/06/2025

    Blackpool - Blackpool Shopping Centre T23 KDR1

    16:00 - 20:00hrs

    02/07/2025

    Midelton - My Place Midleton P25 YT50

    16:00 - 20:00hrs

    03/07/2025

    Cobh - Cobh Community Centre P24KW82

    16:00 - 20:00hrs

    09/07/2025

    Mallow - Mallow Family Resource Centre P51 F344

    16:00 - 20:00hrs

    Webinar details:

    10/07/2025

    Webinar - email cacr@irishrail.ie to receive the link to join online

    19:00 - 20:30hrs


    Other contact details:

    You can contact the project team through the following channels:

    Websitewww.irishrail.ie/CACR

    EmailCACR@irishrail.ie

    Phone: 087 673 3387*

    *Our phone line is open 24 hours a day. If you leave a message, we'll aim to return your call between 9:30am and 5pm the next working day.

    Postal Address: If you would prefer to write to us, please send it or any correspondence to:

    CACR Community,

    Liaison Officer,

    Iarnród Éireann,

    1 Horgan’s Quay,

    Waterfront Square,

    Cork. T23 PPT8



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 443 ✭✭Ireland trains


    Some bits from the reports:

    Depot to be located between Carrigtwohill and Water Rock.

    BEMU found to be unfeasible as the ‘TSS cannot be reliably delivered’.

    New stations to have 94m long platforms, and will have a standard design with stations east and north of Kent having different colour schemes on the lift shafts.

    Blarney will have 3 220m platforms for turn back and to allow intercity services to call there.

    Rathduff will get a passing loop.

    New platform at Cobh.

    New island platform for Mallow west of the existing ones, with a new western entrance.

    Chosen TSS has all Cobh services terminating at Kent, with Midleton services extending to Blarney/Mallow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    This has the potential to positively impact the lives of tens of thousands. Really hope it comes to fruition. So frustrating when you look at something that makes so much sense and think that another 3/4/5 years will elapse before work starts and probably 10 years to substantial delivery. I know that some will look forward to endless discussions about which of the 5 options for the siting of Ballynoe station is most appropriate and which of BEMU vs 1500V DC OLE vs 25KV AC OLE should be chosen etc etc, but wouldn’t it be great if we could just have a show of hands and tell the experts they are doing a great job and to get on with it now please. 

    So much work to be done when you think of the new stations, the upgrades, altering the clearance for over 50 bridge structures, the P&R facilities, closing level crossings, acquiring land for and building the depot, etc, etc. 

    Let's just hope that it doesn't suffer the usual political interference, dropping a few stations to save a few bob, doing two legs rather than three and so on. This could be transformative for Cork in the way that DART was for Dublin. Really hope it comes to fruition in full. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭gooseman12


    I'm almost in shock at how ambitious the plan is. You would have to go back the the dart in the 70s/80s to have any comparison in terms of heavy rail projects.

    The only gap for me is the run from Blarney all the way to Mallow. By comparison the m20 plans will have 2 major exits at rathduff and mallow south within this run, which implies the traffic models showed the need for these exits. If the traffic is expected to be there, it doesn't seem to tie in with the rail plan that wont provide any service along this stretch.

    Maybe a longer term plan would provide for another park and ride station somewhere around the mallow south exit?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,709 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The area from Mallow to Blarney, with the exception of Grenagh, is sparsely populated with no density. In contrast, the section of railway between Mallow and Blarney will be a high speed section. It could be argued that given the low density of population around there (limited walking opportunities to any potential station), it makes sense that if passengers are going to drive anyway they may as well drive an extra few km to the P&R in Blarney rather than slowing trains for a low patronage stop in that area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 372 ✭✭PlatformNine


    Overall I am very happy to see most of the decisions made for the project. They could proposed a cheap and quick phase 2 with only a few stations and BEMU services, but I think they have really designed a good network. I am very happy to see they plan for OHLE electrification rather than BEMU, even if it was only because BEMUs couldn't meet the TSS specification. I was only expecting the Mallow improvements would be a 4th platform, so it's amazing to see they are making 2 dedicated platforms for CACR services. Additionally I think the Stabling upgrades will be great for the network and will help allow for early morning and late night services.

    I will be interested to see if they pick 25kV or 1.5kV OHLE electrification, as I don't see it mentioned anywhere in any of the documents. I would think 25kV electrificaiton because of the Cork-Dublin IC services, however with the added cost of the AC electrification over DC, and that the IC fleet might be bi-mode anyways maybe not.

    I am also curious if the new stations between Mallow and Kent are designed to allow for future four-tracking. It isn't something I expect will be needed soon, but I think it will be needed eventually and it might make sense to make sure all future IC and regional services can operate effeciently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    I will be interested to see if they pick 25kV or 1.5kV OHLE electrification, as I don't see it mentioned anywhere in any of the documents.

    Appendix B "Power and Fleet Options MCA analysis" of the following document goes into the power options in some detail

    https://www.irishrail.ie/getmedia/12cdc483-58e9-4ad2-9dd9-5f9a27ce8c7d/CACR-Options-Selection-Report-20230222.pdf



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 372 ✭✭PlatformNine


    I was initially confused by that, however it turns out that part of the study is out of date. All the brochures, and more importantly the Project Report (third document, section 8, p.67) say this:

    In Phase 2 of the project, a Power and Fleet Study was undertaken to identify the most suitable electrificationapproach. Initially, static charging of a Battery Electric Multiple Unit (BEMU) fleet at terminal stations and the depot was identified as the emerging preferred option, subject to further design development andassessment.

    However, a recent review of the Phase 2 work identified a number of limitations in the earlier study:

    It did not adequately consider realistic operating conditions across the network.

    It failed to address degraded operating scenarios, which are likely during real-world use.

    The Train Service Specification (TSS) routes and depot access movements were not fully developed.

    It did not evaluate the impact of service disruptions on charging times or their effect on TSS delivery, nor did it propose effective solutions.

    and

    The results of this updated study concluded that BEMU electrification is not feasible for the CACR network, as the required TSS cannot be reliably delivered within the performance limits of BEMU technology.

    As a result, full OHLE-based electrification has been confirmed as the preferred and feasible solution. This decision enables the deployment of EMU trains across the network, ensuring robust service delivery and long-term operational efficiency.



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