Cork Area Commuter Rail (CACR)

goingnowhere

If all works are within the existing railway boundaries regular planning should suffice, lots of stations had sidings, goods sheds etc in the past so lots of room. There is talk of loops in the plans, Blarney might need a CPO as the station building and sheds are in private ownership

The RO comes in handy if a CPO is needed.

In basic terms if its new railway = RO

Reopening an existing railway where the alignment is not infringed then no planning is required at all - see Foynes. Similarly if you want to put a second track in where a line was built as double originally you can rely on the original act for planning, Clonsilla-Maynooth was doubled without recourse to planning bar some station works

PlatformNine

Regarding passing loops for Cork-Mallow, I have a memory of there being a diagram including many of IE's plans for the next few decades, and it included four-tracking the approach into Cork by 2040 or 2050. I believe it would be a good few years old now so it's likely no longer the most accurate, especially post-AISRR, but at the very least they were aware they may need to upgrade the line eventually.

However I can't find this diagram anywhere so I might just be making this up so please tell me if I am just hallucinating.

My hope is where possible they will design the stations to allow for future four tracking or passing loops, even if not built as a part of CACR. If/when they do eventually four-track the line, I think it would just be from just before Blarney to the Tunnel with a passing loop/4th platform at Mallow.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123406899#Comment_123406899

I can't see how Ballynoe would get priority ahead of Carrigtwohill West. There's already thousands of people working in the IDA estate in Carrigtwohill and that place continues to expand. Almost all workers drive there at the moment. There's nothing in Ballynoe. I know there's a masterplan for thousands of homes there but that's a long long way off.

The issue with the capacity of Fota Rd and Belvelly Bridge needs to be resolved. It's already after bringing the Marino Point plans to a grinding halt. And it's a major reason why Ballynoe is going nowhere fast either.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41556061.html

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41546149.html

DylanQuestion

I'd love to know why they didn't go for the office name here: CART. CACR is a mouthful in comparison

cc

There's already significant residential presence at Ballynoe (Riverside and Rushbrooke Links Parks), not to mention the ferry link and bus connections. I don't agree with that it's one over the other, however.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123416060#Comment_123416060

20 minute walk to Rushbrooke station. It's hard to justify a station at Ballynoe bearing that in mind and that future development is dependent on Belvelly and R642 being fully upgraded. Something that's unlikely to happen for decades.

Hibernicis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWZ-027Pm9I

New video by Dronehawk showing progress on the Glounthaune-Midleton double tracking project.

Frostybrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123418930#Comment_123418930

Good deal of progress.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123413203#Comment_123413203

I don't have any strong insider info or anything, I've just read that it's 3 stations coming. But I haven't spoken to the engineers on that project in a long time.

I'd probably prefer to see Waterrock or Carrig West myself if given a choice, but I just feel the Ballynoe one might just get the nod because of "unlocking housing lands" being such a high priority at the moment.

Still, 3 stations is a weird number: 2 or 4 would make perfect sense to me (Blarney/Kilbarry and Waterrock/CarrigWest) but 3 makes me think they'll try and do the Ballynoe one.

Remember the IDA site is mostly already developed, and they really don't seem to care about transport mode shares or anything there, so there's no strong "push" there. And Waterrock has approval for phase 1 without rail, so they have another year or two of building ahead of them without being constrained.

namloc1980

Seemingly we'll find out in a few weeks anyway. I think the development of these stations is going to be incredibly slow and frustrating either way. The dual tracking to Midleton, upgraded signals and Kent platform 6 all flying ahead as they are backed by EU Covid Recovery funding, which must be spent by the end of 2026. Everything else will be infrastructure Irish style……hate to say it but that to me means long finger treatment.

cantalach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123421673#Comment_123421673

The argument that a Ballynoe station would unlock housing lands could also be made for Water-rock though. I was on that road yesterday as it turns out, going north from the N25 through the level crossing. I was surprised at how much housing is already under construction just north of the proposed location for the station. Housing development in that location isn’t constrained by the road infrastructure deficit that could hold up Cobh for years, so it seems like an ideal opportunity to provide a rail alternate.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123424366#Comment_123424366

Yep I pass through Waterrock a good bit (it's a great short-cut by bike) and it's flying up.

Still though, they have until 2027 at least before Phase 2 kicks off, and it's not certain that they'll need the rail station to get approval for Phase 2. Whereas Ballynoe probably won't get out of the ground without rail, if the Marino development is anything to go by.

IMO Waterrock should already have had the rail station before Phase 1, because all their transport modelling was done with it in place. This was all back in the bad old days of the pre-2019 NTA "no money for infrastructure" though in fairness.

hans aus dtschl

Changing subject slightly, we now have a bigger Kent Station (more platforms etc) and the walk to 6 is quite far from the subway. It seems like an overall station upgrade could be a good idea before too long.

Is there anything to be said for bringing the main station area slightly to the East to the straight section, and having an overall roof, and an associated second subway linking all platforms 1-6 (and possibly even future Luas)? And also providing more space for shops there: surely there's some merit in having more rent-roll, I don't understand why IÉ don't seem to heavily target this. They probably have more passing potential customers than many city centre streets.

cantalach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123424740#Comment_123424740

There’s a strong safety argument too for shifting the active platforms to the east. Curved platforms certainly wouldn’t be permitted in any entirely new station (“mind the truly enormous gap”). As I think you’re saying, the current Platform 4 and adjoining buildings could be repurposed for retail. If there was permanent brick+glass screens to separate the current platform from the southbound track, you’d have a wide space to work with. You could even make this a new pedestrian entrance with steps down from the Lower Glanmire Road at roughly the spot shown below. That would be lovely actually.

cantalach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123424717#Comment_123424717

One reason I think it’s important to have a rail option available before people start living somewhere is that travel habituation develops quickly and tends to stick.

The sprawling northern coastal suburbs of Perth are a great example of how to do it right. The railway forms the central median of the freeway, with just a few places where they deviate. Nothing new there, but it’s the sequencing that is interesting. Over the last 25 years, the railway always leads the freeway. Every few years the railway is extended, adding 2-3 more stations. A few years later, the freeway follows with its carriageways on either side of the railway. Then the cycle restarts. People become habituated to taking the train to the CBD. There’s no personal modal shift required because the train is how they’ve always got to work, footie, cricket, etc.

rounders

Time lapse of the new platform construction in Kent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6klPsPpAFA

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123425262#Comment_123425262

Slightly off topic for a minute but Perth is a masterclass in how to build a railway network for your city. Ambitious expansion (an extension has opened every few years since the 1990s) using a mix of upgraded old lines and brand-new ones, and a short tunnel to get to the airport. Placing lines in the medians of freeways so that straight runs by rail can be done. Extending rail out to new areas which further fuels their growth.

The only thing missing is maybe a few tram lines for getting around downtown and the inner suburbs, but it’s a really great city for this otherwise.

cantalach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123436784#Comment_123436784

It’s fantastic. Another cool thing about the transport system there is that the railways/freeways mostly have dedicated cycling and pedestrian paths (“PSPs”) running alongside them. Admittedly, they can be nasty at 2pm on a 40° day when hot air is wafting over from the traffic lanes. But they’re very pleasant, efficient, and safe for the morning and evening commute.

Regarding transport within the CBD, my experience was that it was relatively uncongested compared to the similarly sized city I lived in before Perth (Dublin!). Wellington St used to get gnarly at times but the other east-west vehicular spine - St Georges Tce/Adelaide Tce - was usually grand. So I always found that the free Central Area Transit (CAT) bus service quite efficient when it was too hot to walk. That said, I left in 2007 and the metro area population has since increased from 1.6M to 2.2M!

DylanQuestion

The VQ giving out about overhead cables on MacCurtain Street with the tram. One of the main things the consultation documents says is that there will be no overhead cables in the City Centre. There were also none in the photomontage. :?

EDIT: Whoops, wrong thread

questionmark?

Has anyone seen the 2024 passenger figures for the cork commuter network. Most years it's fairly public but haven't seen anything myself. Be interesting to see if the growth in passenger numbers has continued.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123486477#Comment_123486477

Saw nothing yet but I'd be expecting big growth. I don't think I've ever seen such high usage in my lifetime.

Bsharp

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/publications/nta-national-rail-census-report-2024/

DylanQuestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123487054#Comment_123487054

That says Kent is the fifth busiest in the country, behind the four Dublin City stations. It's even ahead of stations like Dublin Grand Canal Dock, Landsdowne Road and Bray

Geuze

I have a question about the signalling contract currently underway.

Is ETCS being installed?

thosewhoknow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123487439#Comment_123487439

ETCS Level 1 is being installed as per Irish Rail.

goingnowhere

But no funding to install ETCS on any of the existing fleet

DylanQuestion

Railway Order Consultation lodged with ABP

https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/322691

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123535766#Comment_123535766

I assume it doesn't include any new stations? And if not, what works will it include?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123535766#Comment_123535766

What exactly is this?

Improvements to an existing railway should not need a RO, in my opinion.

A new station should need PP, as normal, okay.

But replacing track, adding a second track, installing ETCS, installing OHLE, on an existing railway, should not go near ABP. We need to speed things up!!

hans aus dtschl

I have new stations and new fleet depot on my bingo card

Project	Activities
Kent Station Platform Project	Complete
Signalling & Communications Project	Main Contract awarded to Alstom Works ongoing Project completion expected 2026
Glounthaune to Midleton Twin-Track Project	Contract awarded to BAM Ireland Works commenced 23rd September 2024 Works completed 2026
New Stations (and existing station improvements), New Fleet Depot,  Electrification	Consultant appointed May 2024 Public Consultation 2025 Submission of Railway Order application (equivalent of planning application) to An Bord Pleanála expected end 2025