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Unsolved Irish Mysteries.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭New Scottman


    Interesting that a report from the time (15 April 1993) states that the bank footage of Annie dated from 15 March 1993.

    Where did the belief that the footage was from the day she disappeared come from?

    The Lucan to Kinnegad trip - must be someone else ?

    1993-04-15AM.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    Apologies, I misspoke, he wasn't Jojo's ex. He doesn't seem to have had any prior direct connection to her but has seemingly emerged as key suspect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,878 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    re: "Vanishing Triangle"

    There was at least one other person operating in that area with criminal intent at that time; John Crerar killed Phyllis Murphy in 1979 after offering her a lift from Newbridge. He lived in Kildare.

    This is an interesting read… https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2025/0127/1493266-murderer-who-evaded-justice-for-20-years-dies-serving-life-term/

    He went undetected for twenty tears until DNA was his downfall. If Phyllis' body hadn't been found he would be a free man to this day. I've always thought the MO was quite similar in some of the "missing women" cases.

    I agree that many or even most of the deaths can be traced to persons known to the victim. But there ARE exceptions…and Crerar was a very dangerous man.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    I don't know where the belief the bank CCTV footage came from the day she disappeared came from, possibly no more than a Garda clerical or typing error I suspect, mistakes happen and usually aren't sinister. Seemingly the original info was correct all along, bank CCTV was from almost an entire week before. I think the Quinnsworth receipt has been confirmed as from day she disappeared. Lucan to Kinnegad sighting has not appeared in any recent media reports, I would assume was ruled out long ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 285 ✭✭NoeldeBournaix




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 566 ✭✭✭derb12


    I’ve read that she worked in cafe java opposite o briens pub on Leeson st. I used to go there in the 90s and there’s no way anything served was baked at home by staff. It’s always just standard fare, same as every other cafe java. I think I read somewhere that she might have been planning to bring cakes for her coworkers which seems strange. Baking for home guests makes more sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭New Scottman


    none of the Irish Times articles from the first two months seem to mention the dinner callers. Unless I missed something.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    Even if bank CCTV WAS from day she disappeared rather than 11 days before, I'm not sure if it would tell us much….other than she was still alive and in Sandymount at some point on the Friday, at the very least in the morning? Which I think is not in dispute anyway, wasn't there a Quinnsworth receipt discovered in her apartment from same day, i.e. day she disappeared?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    That's a bid odd about initial reports not mentioning anything about dinner guests, though does seem to suggest AGS in the early days/months put too much on the Enniskerry theory.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 285 ✭✭NoeldeBournaix


    It's interesting in that the visit to AIB on March 26th has been part of the reported timeline for so long.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭New Scottman


    the very first article sets the tone - all about Glencullen / Enniskerry. From then on, it’s mentioned in each piece.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166 ✭✭LunaLoo


    Was she actually seen buying the shopping by anyone or was there just a bag of groceries with a receipt left in her flat



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 285 ✭✭NoeldeBournaix




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    Yeah, first article definitely states last sighting in Johnny Foxes pub. Should have been worded 'unconfirmed sighting in Johnny Foxes pub' or 'woman matching Annie's description seen in Johnny Foxes pub'. For those not familar with area, Foxe's pub isn't even in Enniskerry, it's a good 6km away over hilly country roads.

    So maybe she went to Enniskerry and walking around the village got chatting to a fella who seemed nice, then agreed to accompany him to Foxes in his car for a few pints? Seems extremely, incredibly, vanishingly unlikely. Even if said hypothetical fella said, "sure we'll only have the one drink, then I'll drop you back to Sandymount." To me, it's just completely infeasible as a scenario, even given the time and year, much less traffic on roads, pre Celtic Tiger Ireland, and so on.

    Annie wasn't type to make very impulsive decisions at the drop of a hat, if anything the opposite, descriptions from people who knew her well speak of a fairly calm and stable personality, not impulsive, and I don't get the impression she was much of a drinker or pub person. She simply wouldn't have planned a meal for friends and then, gone "oh I know, I've a few hours to kill, think I'll head out to Enniskerry on the bus, I've always wanted to visit the place", and then gone "yeah, might as well go head off to a pub half way up the mountains for a few drinks with a bloke I just met. " Yes, young people sometimes do spontaneous/crazy/impulsive things, but Annie didn't seem like that sort of young person at all, far from it.

    Just goes to show for all that people complain about tabloids and redtops, here we have the so-called paper of record, the respectable Irish Times, screwing up massively.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Of the seven young women who disappeared in Leinster in those years, all but one - Deirdre Jacob - were almost certainly murdered by someone they knew, not Larry Murphy or any other serial killer.

    The Gardai have now come to that view in the cases of Annie McCarrick and Jo Jo Dullard. It is also very likely in the cases of Imelda Keenan, Fiona Pender, Fiona Sinnott and Ciara Brennan. Far more likely than some convenient "bogey man" roaming the countryside - convenient for the Gardai that is after they failed to make a case against any of these murderers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭Caquas


    And I should have given credit to recent cases where the Gardai have brought killers to justice by excellent police work.

    The murder of "Mr. Moonlight" by Pat Quirke comes to mind. And the murder of Nora Sheehan by Noel Long in 1981 - he was convicted over 40 years later, a good example of a cold case investigation finally bringing a killer to justice. The problem is not that the Gardai lack investigative skills - it seems to be a managerial problem i.e. the under-performers are never dealt with (as Maurice McCabe discovered to his cost)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Ringing NY from a phone box was unusual because it was expensive and inconvenient - you needed a mountain of 50p coins. That shows that they were very worried about her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    Yep, spot on. Two points I would make:

    (1) Media also somewhat culpable, as other posters mentioned

    (2) I'd wonder if the Guards at the time were being too influenced by US research/investigative techniques - and there are plenty of examples of 'serial killer roaming the hills' and/or 'dodgy interstate truck driver who operated in certain areas' being a genuine and proven thing in the US, Canada also to a lesser extent, even the UK to some extent.

    edit: Jo-Jo's alleged perp I don't think had met her before? But basically you're spot on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,745 ✭✭✭Xander10


    Unusual that had her mother's US phone number or is there any mention how they got it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭New Scottman


    Annie lived with them in Clondalkin 1987/1988

    When she left to go back to US, presume she gave them her phone number. Back then your parents number was the most reliable one to give out.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 285 ✭✭NoeldeBournaix


    The brothers would have had the phone number from years earlier. I'd say they kept in contact when she went back to the US. Prior to mobile phones, would people have kept a pocket notebook with contacts phone numbers in it back then?

    With what is now known, was that call to Annies mother showing genuine concern though?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,745 ✭✭✭Xander10


    I see.

    But would it still be a bit unusually for the brother to be sitting in a pub in Sandymount and have the US number written down somewhere on him but not Annie's Irish number written down?

    Pre mobiles and all that..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 994 ✭✭✭cobham


    Interesting to see the shop receipt and it looks like a dessert ingredients but dont see cream which would have been the one thing to put in a fridge. She had phoned a friend to see if she would come to Enniskerry but friend was unable. I cant see her going on her own and she had already been there some weeks previous. She also worked for the Courtyard restaurant? or the dessert was to give to her dinner guests and needed to be prepped in advance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭julyjane


    The abduction and murder of DJ might not be as random/opportunistic as reported either. It's been said that a carpenter who is a person of interest in the case had carried out work in her grandmothers shop a few weeks previously, this person is known for hunting/stalking animals as well as women.

    With the benefit of hindsight it's quite possible that he was following her for some days/weeks and knew where to get her rather than just happened to be driving along the road. She was seen by someone known to her at the gate of her home but her parents knew she hadn't made it into the house as the alarm was still on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 285 ✭✭NoeldeBournaix


    Can you make out the first two items on the receipt? Something for 2.79 and 0.73, first item seems faded but could have been visible to the Garda team at the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭juneg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭New Scottman


    thanks

    Something poignant about that receipt

    Article mentions the incorrect date for bank visit. Not surprising when I see the journalist. Overrated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    Prior to mobile phones, yes a lot of people would have kept a notebook with contacts phone numbers, for convenience to avoid having to look up telephone directory (vast majority of houses and apartments had telephone directories) or for keeping record of non-Irish numbers, or Irish numbers which were ex-directory.

    "With what is now known, was that call to Annies mother showing genuine concern though?"

    That's what I'd wonder about. Or was it genuine concern, with reason for said concern being he knew what brother was allegedly capable of?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Bogey Lowenstein
    That must be Nigel with the brie...


    The second item ends in PIMS or RIMS, haven't a clue what it could be, maybe some old brand that was since discontinued. 2.79 punt would have been quite an expensive item then, no?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,878 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    As far as I can read the very faded receipt, those two items both say Odlums. A well known brand of flour. There are 2 packets, which could have been Plain flour and Self-raising. There's also sugar and some Black Plums.



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