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Boycotting: Unsure if I'm in a rabbit hole here?

  • 09-06-2025 10:18PM
    #1
    unsure_tw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭


    Long store short, I'm looking to buy a new guitar.

    I had a thought a few days ago about whether thr guitar manufacturer (Fender) had any dealings with Israel or is complicit in what's going on in Gaza at the moment - I wanted to make sure before I go spending a lot of money

    I found myself looking up the parent company of Fender and saw the parent company (Servco) were involved with providing dealerships for Toyota (the IDF seem to be involved with Toyota in relation to vehicles that have weapons) to Hawaii and Australia - they own Toyota themselves though.

    There are lists of companies/brands to boycott and I have found Toyota on a few but not Servco or Fender - I've been goggling looking for answers and making posts on subreddits asking for clarity. I suppose I'm looking for certainty here that I'm not doing harm. Buying from a company that is directly complicit is one thing, but companies with degrees of seperation is another.

    I don't wish to delve into the political elements (Israel vs Palestine) but more about advice etc.

    Thanks

    Post edited by HildaOgdenx on


Comments

  • #2
    HildaOgdenx
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,246 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    Mod - Moved to a more suitable forum.

    Local charter now applies.



  • #3
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,041 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Modern corporate practices have made such decisions both meaningless and impossible. I can virtually guarantee that the device you're using to post this question has as much (if not more) to do with Israel than a guitar. Unless you go totally off-grid and become entirely self-sufficient, you cannot avoid globally inter-connected companies.

    Boycott direct Israeli companies if you choose, and maybe go one degree of separation. After that it is simply not feasible to go further. Even if you could, your targets would be totally unaware of your reasons for boycotting them.

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  • #4
    unsure_tw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭unsure_tw


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123529984#Comment_123529984

    Thanks for the reply. My only argument regarding a guitar vs a phone is that there is much more of a necessity for a phone, the guitar I'm looking at is probably a but of a luxury, if I'm being honest.

    That being said, yep I agree, it would be hard to avoid all harmful companies entirely. It's just good to discuss it and see how people would approach this as the line needs to be drawn somewhere



  • #5
    Flinty997
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,758 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Why not buy a guitar from an Irish Luthier..

    You're never going to know where all the parts in product from a vast multinational come from or what companies it links to.



  • #6
    unsure_tw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭unsure_tw


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123530135#Comment_123530135

    Not too sure about a luthier tbh, maybe it's a bias of mine. Worth considering all the same though



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  • #7
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,960 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    an irish luthier would almost certainly be exceptionally expensive compared to a factory produced fender.

    it's an electric or acoustic you're shopping for?



  • #8
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,260 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    Unashamed promotion of a local festival, which happens to be one of the biggest instrument-maker fairs in Europe … albeit with a fierce bias against those of an electric disposition. :-)

    But plenty of guitars of all kinds, try-before-you-buy as standard, and a 100% guarantee that the instrument has been made by the guy paying for the stand.

    https://www.lesoncontinu.fr/conferences/#lesluthiers


  • #9
    Flinty997
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,758 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532243#Comment_123532243

    I don't mean commission one. But you can get used ones that have been made in Ireland.



  • #10
    kirving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,305 ✭✭✭kirving


    Realistically, you're gone way too far up and down rabbit hole when you starting implicating distribution companies across different industries.

    I'm not trying to undermine your boycott, nor do I disagree with at all tbh, but ISIS were driving around in Toyota pickups, while burning people alive, drowning others in cages, stoning women to death, and throwing gay people off rooftops. At some point or other in the supply chain, it's beyond impossible or companies to control where their products go, or control negative press associated with them.



  • #11
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,403 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058415671/boycotting-unsure-if-im-in-a-rabbit-hole-here

    I don't wish to delve into the political elements (Israel vs Palestine) but more about advice etc.

    You don't want to get into politics of it but you still want to boycott one of the parties involved.

    Surely that is getting into the politics of it.

    Just buy the guitar you want and enjoy it without getting concerned about a millinimum old conflict thousands of miles away.



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  • #12
    Bogey Lowenstein
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Bogey Lowenstein
    That must be Nigel with the brie...


    It would be hard to trace the origins of a guitar. It might be assembled in the US or Mexico or wherever but the components could be coming from anywhere in the world. China probably makes a lot of the metal parts.



  • #13
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,960 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i have a very different item - a bin storage 'shed' where a part has failed. however, in googling where to get spares, i learned the company (keter) are israeli so i'm not replacing that part.



  • #14
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,960 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    anyway, the associations fender that you've found seem to have with israel are so tenuous as to be not worth worrying about. IMHO.



  • #15
    unsure_tw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭unsure_tw


    It's not the guitar itself, it's more about associations of the company etc



  • #16
    unsure_tw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭unsure_tw


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532440#Comment_123532440

    Sorry wrong post, I've replied below to your next post



  • #17
    unsure_tw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭unsure_tw


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532469#Comment_123532469

    Fair. In my initial post, I should have said they do not own Toyota, just that they have dealerships in Australia and Hawaii

    Bono (some people would call him a Zionist) and The Edge of U2 recently had dealings with an Israeli bank when selling the Clarence hotel and were at one point on the board of directors of Fender - they don't look to be now though. The Edge had two or three signature guitar deals with Fender and Adam Clayton (also with U2) has one currently.

    Would this information still be make any association tenuous or is there any substance to worry do you think?

    Post edited by unsure_tw on


  • #18
    unsure_tw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭unsure_tw


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532352#Comment_123532352

    It was more I didn't want to get into discussions about I vs P that would derail the thread, I take your point though.



  • #19
    unsure_tw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭unsure_tw


    Sorry just saw this, it's an electric. I'm left handed just to make things more complicated lmao



  • #20
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,213 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    If you want a fender just buy the **** thing



  • #21
    unsure_tw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭unsure_tw


    I appreciate the alternatives people have posted here, but just a question

    Would I be correct in thinking that you are offering these alternatives because you are following my line of thinking with regards to Fender and these possible links, or are you just posting alternatives? Sorry, I don't think I could ask without being direct



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  • #22
    Flinty997
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,758 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123534992#Comment_123534992

    I don't agree with your line of thinking.

    I'm just making possible solutions.



  • #23
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,213 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532232#Comment_123532232

    Manapia guitars in wexord would make you something above fender usa spec for a similar price



  • #24
    BP_RS3813
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭BP_RS3813


    Its practically impossible to boycott any one country nowadays and has been for a very long time.

    For better or for worse, Post WW2 in order to reduce the chances of one country just invading another to get something, the world was built in a very interconnected way.

    A product may be sold by an Irish subsidiary who is owned by a US company who is financed by US banks who have Israel government bonds (Who you are trying to avoid in this case). The parts are sourced from somewhere in East Asia and may be delivered by a European Delivery company.

    Its impossible to effectively boycott anything.

    So to answer your question: yes you are in a rabbit hole, one you can never get out of.



  • #25
    JPup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭JPup


    Honestly, the link you've made been Fender and Israel seems very tenuous, not to say factually dubious. As someone has already said, if you are boycotting companies due to that level of association, you would have to boycott most consumer products in this day and age - if not for links to Israel then China or the US, for example, who both have governments currently that are guilty of immoral acts to a greater or lesser extent.

    I'd also like to say in general, it's not at all clear cut that a boycott of all Israeli companies is morally valid. Not all Israelis think alike nor are they all culpable for the actions of their government (the same goes for China and the US). Many are Muslim, of course, and many more disagree with the treatment of the people in Gaza.

    It's like people in the past generalising and associating all Irish people with the IRA. In fact, I'd go so far as to call that out as a problematic attitude. Something for you to consider maybe.



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