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Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,294 ✭✭✭✭thesandeman




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,565 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    scam/skam/

    nouninformal

    1. dishonest scheme; a fraud.

    From Re-Turn Homepage:

    Recycling Targets

    The Single Use Plastics (SUP) Directive is the main driver for the introduction of Deposit Return. We need to achieve the EU recycling targets of 77% by 2025, and 90% by 2029 and Deposit Return is a proven successful solution to achieving these targets.

    Recent news article with a quote from ReTurn:

    Re-Turn says plastic-to-plastic bottle recycling in Ireland is not 'financially viable' - for now

    The company was defending itself after a TD told the Dáil that 88% of plastic collected is shipped around the world.

    All the while they pocket €54 million. An no clarification if the waste shipped out foreign is actually being recycled. But out of sight, out of mind eh?

    Sounds like a scam to me. Dishonest with their recycling blurb when all they are is mainly a plastic waste dispatching company. Surprised someone hasn't tried an Airtag or two yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭jj880


    Every time their website is mentioned it should be pointed out that those European targets are for collection NOT recycling. When you have blatant lies on your homepage you lose all credibility.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,931 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    In 2021 the Danish DRS was still sending PET to Holland for processing. Sweden exports a lot of their PET flakes as well. Both these countries deposit schemes are up and running for decades. Ours is a year old, and has the advantage of being able to use new technologies when the commercial impetus for home processing arrives.

    https://petpla.net/2021/09/22/denmark-partnership-ensures-bottle-to-bottle-recycling/

    https://www.naturvardsverket.se/4ac845/globalassets/media/publikationer-pdf/8800/978-91-620-8888-0.pdf

    (Sweden 2020). Most recycled plastic is currently exported, but new facilities for sorting, upcycling and mechanical/chemical recycling are planned for construction in Sweden. A couple of examples are Svensk Plaståtervinning’s new sorting and upcycling plant for plastic packaging waste in Motala, called Site Zero, and Borealis’ planned facility for chemical recycling in Stenungsund.

    Good progress in Sweden expected for Coca Cola PET.

    https://www.interpack.com/en/Media_News/interpack_Magazine/BEVERAGES_PACKAGING/Beverages_Industry_News/Coca-Cola_bottles_made_out_of_rPET

    The company in Monaghan which Sinn Fein is promoting, gets their plastic from domestic bins, contaminated. Another company extracts the the cardboard and metal from the bins before sending on the plastic. And the Monaghan company has to do another involved process to separate out the PET from the mixed plastic, and render it pure enough to be sent somewhere else to be turned into bottles. That somewhere else is probably abroad, but Matt Carthy did not give that information. No word from Sinn Fein about any company doing processing of aliminium in Ireland either.

    The bin companies and before them the Councils have had many decades of handling this stuff. Why did they never go into the business of making PET bottles and aliminium cans, or at least contracting a company in Ireland to do it for them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭bmc58


    OK.But in my local Dunnes the Return machine will reject most deformed cans and you have to straighten them out a bit to get them accepted.Some machines must be more particular than others.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,931 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Tesco machines are more forgiving than Dunnes in my experience. I put rejects to one side after a single failure, and print a voucher for the good ones. The rejects can be tried again at leisure. Checkouts and service desks have no issue with more than one voucher.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭jj880


    The bin companies and before them the Councils have had many decades of handling this stuff. Why did they never go into the business of making PET bottles and aliminium cans, or at least contracting a company in Ireland to do it for them?

    That would require Councils spending money planning ahead and putting citizens first.

    That doesnt happen here. The cheapest option + gombeen quick buck always wins out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,528 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    should be getting an update this month on how it's working out, 1st June was the date all drinks sold required the logo.

    there'll obviously be some lag in people returning skewing it a bit but it'll be the most telling until June 26.

    I'll guess the 54m will have risen slightly, can't see many bothered with it when they're out during the day etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 411 ✭✭bluedex


    It may have been discussed on here before, but people going to a shop with only one machine (like a lot of local Aldi shops) with multiple bin bags full of cans and plastic bottles, and spending 20 mins at the machine putting them in 1 by 1 while a queue gets longer behind them 🤬

    There's a special place in Hell for these selfish, inconsiderate a***holes!!

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,566 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It's not their fault this scam exists.

    Not everyone can or will travel miles to dump some rubbish every week.

    Bit of misdirected anger there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,881 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    While it can be annoying to stand behind someone as the spend the guts of a half hour putting cans and bottles into one of these ridiculous contraptions, I highly doubt they are getting any pleasure out of it themselves. It's this ludicrous scam that's put both the person doing the unnecessary task and the people waiting for them to finish in this awkward position in the fist place.

    It's insane that people have to put up with these slow ass machines to discard of something that there were already discarding in their own bins at home.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 411 ✭✭bluedex


    Yes I know, it's a rant!

    They could of course, just go to one of the other retailers, about 2 mins away, that have multiple machines - but maybe they just want to spend their money in Aldi. The vouchers should be universal or else just credit your account.

    But of course it's ultimately the fault of this ridiculous scheme and its unintended consequences.

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,528 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    retail magazine checkout's take on the drs. covers prices, pack sizes, range, promotions, sales.

    On the face of it, it looks as though DRS may have resulted in above inflation price rises to the shopper, but this needs to be viewed with other factors in mind.

    The growing burden on retailers, particularly in the convenience sector, is inevitably creating an upward pressure on pricing overall.

    Their role in communicating and executing the scheme so successfully should be applauded, as should the other main parties - the manufacturers and shoppers.

    Together, in the space of just 12 months, they have already hit an 88% return rate, versus the EU target of 90% by 2029.

    This is truly impressive and acts as a shining light for the UK to follow when it launches similar schemes in autumn 2027.

    Has Ireland’s DRS launch been a success? The answer is a resounding Yes!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,528 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    couldn't you go to one of the other shops with multiple machines as you'd be less likely to get stuck behind someone for that long?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭bog master


    What do you do when there is only one DRS machine in your locality?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭jj880


    At least they've stated EU targets are for return (not recycle) unlike the Re-Turn.ie homepage.

    So smaller more convenient stores are the cause of supermarket price rises? Serious grasping at straws there.

    Its a collection scheme so if its being called a success then its on that basis only. Collecting containers with RVMs that use more resources, an additional fleet of lorries on the roads and shipping containers out of the country. Carbon footprint anyone?

    We still have no definitive numbers on what's recycled and what's incinerated or landfilled outside Ireland. Until we can see reliable stats on this Re-Turn is green theatre.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭bmc58


    Why would you do that?Why would you even post such a terrible un cicic thing to do?What about the people who want to use the machine after your vandalism?I really hope you're caught on CCTV.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭bmc58




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,931 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Not as impressive as the poster who let us know that they defecate into the bottles and cans.

    Another country added to the list in 2025, Austria. Same set up as Ireland, except it seems to be 25 cents all round.

    https://www.foodtimes.eu/planet/austria-introduces-deposit-return-schemes-drs-on-bottles-and-cans/

    And of course the part which people who want the schemes to fail prefer to overlook:

    "the increase in separate waste collection of excellent quality bottles and cans to be sent for recycling for the production of new containers (a production process that is less energy-intensive than using virgin raw materials)"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 732 ✭✭✭lostinsuperfunk


    You can force the machines to accept the "rejects" by shooting them in really fast. You don't get any credit, but at least you don't have to bring them home with you.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭bmc58


    Dunnes also have no problem with more than one voucher,both at the till and the self service tills.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 411 ✭✭bluedex


    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,634 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    €54 million plus the scrap costs of tonnes of lovely sorted aluminium and plastics. Probably tens of millions more.

    I look forward to their company filings that show them millions in profit for a scheme that costs buttons to run.

    They've collected over 1 billion containers as of February this year.

    Scrapyard.ie says drinks cans made from aluminium are achieving over €800 per ton and there are 65,000 cans in a ton.

    So if half the recovered items are cans, thats over €6million in scrap value.

    But hey, they donated 90,000 to charity, less than one of their board members makes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭bog master


    Speaking of board members and employees, are there any published figures out there? I seem to recall the "previous" minister was told to feck off when he enquired!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,835 ✭✭✭C3PO


    This is my first time logging into this thread and after reading numerous of your posts on the subject, I’m still not sure whether you’re trolling, genuinely don’t understand the concept of a “deposit” or maybe you’re living in a parallel universe?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,634 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    That's true. The government doesn't know how much the CEO gets paid.

    They paid half a million to their CEO and board of directors in 2023 before the scheme had started. Bear in mind the CEO is the only person who's job is 100% the re-turn scheme (I think)

    Apart from the CEO there is Tony Keoghan, the chairman of the FAI (so we're already f*cked) Chairman Outsurance, CircolELT, DRSI. Malone Group. Owner Keohane Conaty consultancy

    Seamus Clancy, who just retired as the CEO of REPAK

    David Kelly, Financial consultant, sometimes undertaking assignments as an interim Finance Director/CFO for Focus Ireland, also an independent director and chair of the Finance, Audit and Risk Committee of Circol ELT (same as Tony, this is a scheme for tyre recycling)

    Noreen O'Kelly is on the Board of RTE.

    And 10 other representatives of retailers and producers.

    Their 2024 report should be released in September of this year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,416 ✭✭✭Field east


    a little bit of flexibility is called for. Most can recyclers I come across would have - at most - a small plastic bag/ box of cans. So you have two options if you wabpnt to recycle in the shop . On the assumption that you are not buying one or two things , then either wait for a few minutes if the person has only a few cans or get your trolly , put your bag of cans into it and off you go shopping. In the meantime the machine might get freed up and away you go shopping.
    And what’s the problem with you taking home your few cans again and trying another day?

    I think it’s VERY UNFAIR as per post no 4180. I give these the benefit of doubt. They are probably unemployed, down in their luck and see an opportunity to make a few ‘small’ quid. So they have got up off their ‘ar-e ‘ to do something about it . I would class them as entrepreneurial and not as layabouts. And rather than going to the machine with a few cans every few days they choose to collect a few bag fulls ant then go. I can only guess the source of such cans. But it probably involves a lot of walking the streets, looking into bins, etc, etc, etc,etc. another healthy side of the scheme for those entrepreneurs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,328 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Are we sure the return/collection rate is 88 percent? I see it mentioned in a post earlier but I thought ReTurn weren't going to give us actual figures until July 2025 when a "full review" of it's implementation was due to happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭bog master


    In my case, I shop once a week and usually bring in the recycling every other week, generally about 30-40 items. I have limited mobility and use one arm-crutch. Upon arrival if some selfish eejits have not taken up disabled parking bays, a relatively easy distance to trolley bay. If not, park some distance away, go get trolley, return to car to get bag of cans/bottles.

    If a queue, one can wait or try to do shopping with bag of recycling in the trolley. If I wish to forego recycling and leave, queue up at checkout or try to find a staff member to open gate at a unused checkout. A lot of needless extra work when one could open the back door, 5 steps to the recycle bin. Meanwhile bin charges are up because waste operators are losing an income stream from the aluminium.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    I do keep hearing this that bin charges are up, this is not universal across the board. My Panda bin charges haven't gone up in 2 years in North County Dublin.



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