Donald Trump the Megathread part II - Mod Warning added to OP 10/1/26

What is the point in doing any business with America anymore?

There are tariffs, then there aren't tariffs. Then there's a deal. But it's not really a deal, it's the concepts of a deal with nothing agreed upon, but it's still the best deal ever. But then it wasn't good enough, so there's more tariffs, but not for 90 days until we get the same great deal we had before the most recent tariff. The a court says the tariffs can't be implemented. Then another court says yes they can be implemented. Then the tariffs are increased because the court has given Trump power to do what he wants with tariffs. But then he suspends the tariffs because they've made a deal, the best deal ever, and the tariffs are postponed. But then the tariffs are back on because the best deal ever, nothing was agreed on it and it's hurting the US, so tariffs baby!! But the tariffs are suspended pending negotiations. Then a Court says tariffs are ok, so tariffs are back and bigger then ever. But then the market slumps so tariffs are suspended again for 90 days, with an deal ready for announcement. Next week. But it'll be subject to tariffs.

That's how America is operating right now. Trump changing his mind every few hours, and mindless and moronic lick-spittle sycophants bending over backwards to justify and implement the latest mood swing from the president-come-wannabe dictator king.

The American economy under Trumpist economics is about as reliable a partner as having an igloo as your house in the middle of the Kalahari and hoping to avoid it melting down.

And let's be honest here, not only has America voted for Trump, they voted for the MAGA version of the GOP to be over everything. This ain't going to go away with Trump, Trump has allowed the worst traits of the GOP of the last 40 years to become policy. This is their wet dream, they won't give this up, Trumpism will be the gold standard of GOP policy going forward. And a clear part of that policy is putting those dirty, nasty, scummy foreigners in their place under America's jackboot. That's their policy now.

How long before China, India, the EU, Africa and South America say "fcuk this bullsh!t, let's move on with out them"?

Because the way the US is going, they'll actually have to deal without the US out of basic self-preservation for their own economies. It's much, much better to go out into the rain in the street together and figure out shelter from there, than staying under a dry roof in a house with a lunatic that's dumping wood, coal and petrol all over the house and waving a lit candle.

Prior to 2016, if any other president of either party released a statement like this basically demonstrating utter ignorance of the constitution and the role of the courts and congress and the desire for the president to be all powerful, they probably would have been impeached or perhaps even the 25th amendment would be invoked.

They're stupid, yes, but they're also incredibly cohesive. Look at what Joe Biden was dealing with compared to the way MAGA venerates and adores Trump.

They'll be loyal to Trump until they start starving. The problem with having minimal social supports is that it takes a lot less force to destroy the social contract. A hungry dog will only be so loyal to its master.

I’m not convinced the US is heading for a classic civil war between two clear factions, but large-scale civil unrest or random insurgency seems entirely plausible. Something not identical to, but perhaps with more in common with The Troubles in Northern Ireland. The fault lines are very different, and quite worryingly there is drastically more heavy weaponry in circulation, both among civilians and the state and many of those shouting the loudest are often also those who have a penchant for guns and violence.

Hopefully it doesn't go there but it seems not entirely unlikely.

What you're seeing is a breakdown of normal democracy and rule of law. A lot will depend on things like how the government interacts with the court rulings etc, but there's a major disconnect happening when you see things that should be taken for granted in a a functioning democracy just not happening, like an assumption that the underlying pillar institutions like the courts should be respected by the executive etc.

Even on something like the current tariffs. If the courts uphold the U.S. Court of International Trade ruling, and then the executive ignores that ruling then we're into a total mess! It would immediately result in a situation where companies would potentially refuse to pay tariffs that don't exist in law, and the executive would be in total conflict with the legal system. Then what? It's just rule by who has access to most force… Or, it ends up as old man shouting at the clouds and the entire US government goes into complete chaos.

Systems of government all have rules, regulations and constitutional frameworks underlying them. However, most of what they do relies on a prevailing political culture that accepts the legitimacy of those systems and institutions of state, and is willing to work within them.

I think the only thing that's going to cause a major reset in the US at this point is the reality of a complete financial meltdown - they may not listen to political logic, but they are suddenly snapped into reality by economic realities.

At this stage I don't even think a national economic collapse would change the minds of the MAGA idiots. They are so confused, themselves, by Trump's gibberish that he'd just blame it on Biden and they'll go along with it. The zone has been so flooded with shit that it has become impossible to separate fact from the enormous amounts of fiction that Trump and his cronies have poisoned political discourse with.

A substantial amount of them cannot even get their heads around the basic concept of what a tariff is and have no idea how it impacts them financially. Nor do they understand why this kind of economic yoyo'ing is just plain bad for trade on any level for ordinary people.

Far too many of them will just trust in Trump to deliver them to the sunlit uplands that they all have in the heads, which is a wildly varying concept for each individual. And with Joe Biden they've all been given a figure of hate on which they can hang blame on for everything that Trump screws up.

It's hard to say. I said possible but I should have added very unlikely. The odd thing is that there is some kind of identity in the form of the Confederacy which overlaps neatly with the pride Americans seem to attach to specific states, most noteworthy being Texas. An actual civil war with frontlines and war economies is unlikely but unrest, non-cooperation with the federal government and sporadic violence would be more likely.

The final paragraph of your post is the most important. If enough people put Trump above democracy then the constitution is just words on paper. We've already seen MAGA capture the supreme court hence my comment about civil war becoming possible as the legal route to stopping Trump becomes almost invalid.

I grew up believing in America as the land of the free. Leaders in art, music, films, literature, sport, technology, science, enterpreneurship and democracy. Friend and ally to Western Europe and our protector against the USSR. To me, it didn't matter if it was a Republican or Democratic president. The US was the moral leader of the world.

Now, the US sides with Russia and lectures Europe and Ukraine. Wants to take over Greenland, Canada and the Pamela Canal. Believes an election was stolen. Has a president who lies continuously and deports people without due process. Threatens his opponents, media and the judiciary. Doesn't believe in science. Incites hatred. Lines his own pockets blatantly.Throws childish tantrums. Wants revenge against anyone who opposes him. Demands fawning loyalty.

The sad thing is that half the citizens support the president and many say he is not extreme enough. It is likely that his successor will be more hardline. The gap between the US and Europe is widening to the extent that it is not inconceivable that they will be foes in a number of years. Never has the US more needed a leader who can change course

It just gets harder and harder for the MAGA morons to keep following:

China pays the tariffs, those tariffs will be financing the big bill. So why did Trump chicken out of the higher tariffs? Why is he putting China over the US etc...

But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he was that hurt with the TACO phrase.

Can't blame them after the century of humiliation they suffered when the Brits pumped the population full of opium to replace the silver they were draining. Ironically that was over a trade deficit also, they probably have long memories.

Xi is basically using Russia as a colony state: Taking their raw materials on favourable terms while selling them the manufactured goods they need to continue their pointless war. It's pathetic that what was once considered a superpower is now a tinpot autocracy bending over for anyone and everyone willing to throw it any kind of help.