Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Are we rich or poor

  • 27-05-2025 09:20AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭


    Last Saturday: Irish Times.

    Cliff Taylor, the money is going to run out.

    David Mc Williamns, we have to stop acting as if we are poor and the money is going to run out.

    So, which is it, are we rich or are we poor?

    Paraphrasing a bit.



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,701 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    What do you mean, "Which is it?" Newspapers often employ columnists who have different views on things. Said columnists don't make the title either. That's down to the editor.

    Did you read either piece?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,736 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Some are filthy rich, some are rich, some are managing, some are poor and some are filthy poor



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭dmakc


    We're richer on the inside, but the bar for cost of living (for many issues) has surpassed our wealth increase leaving us poorer on the outside.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭littlefeet


    Of course I did, but we can't be both. What it appears, is that no one knows what's happening



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,701 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It's hard to know what the problem is without more detail. Care to provide a summary?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Oh they know alright, they just don't want to admit it. The rich are getting richer and everyone else is suffering. Food and goods inflation is hitting people in the pocket, each month they have less disposable income but the government get more tax take, as the inflation means higher vat returns for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    politicians and policy makers tend to have an extremely poor understanding of economics, as they tend to be neoclassically informed and trained, which is deeply misinformed of how our reality works, but its true, nobody fully understands, even well respected commentators, such as those mentioned in the op



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Apiarist


    That is right. Especially with the high level of the inflation, people's salaries haven't risen enough to compensate, while people with stocks and other investments are generally better off.

    However, I would say that on average, people in Ireland are rich. If only the government was serious about housing, we could also feel rich if everyone didn't have to worry about exorbitant rents or unaffordable mortgages.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    relatively wealthy if you happen to own assets, but not everybody does, or has the ability to do so!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    There is no vat on food but there is plenty of tax and excise duty charged on transport, but food is really playing catch up in price .The real driver of inflation is our government with all extra admin,health and safety.regulation and many more daft red tape .They want to build more house yet the NGO's hinder planning ,increase standards and on top add a levy to the price of concrete .Go figure that out !



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    inflation is primarily a supply side issue in modern economies, i.e. excess profiteering, particularly at the higher levels of supply chains, i.e. major corporations etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    It's too ambiguous to define rich or poor. A guy might think the guy next door is rich whereas the guy himself might consider himself middle of the road or lower. Guy A probably has no clue what guy B next doors financial situation is. One mans definition of rich will be completely at odds as someone else's.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭littlefeet


    To sum up,….we are too reliant on corporate tax, the money is going to run out, houses at the top end of the market are taking longer to sell, we have large household savings, and so on. In the other corner, no, the money is not going to run out, and we have to stop running our economy on the fear of money running out. We are wealthy. That's a basic summation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,701 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That makes sense.

    To me it seems that Ireland is not just rich country but one of the richest in the world. The problem is that none of the wealth generated has been sensibly invested. During the boom years, it was wasted in the form of tax cuts so what could have been invested in education and infrastructure was fritted away on home makeovers, holiday homes and keeping up with the Joneses.

    That means that Ireland is a very wealthy country with the same infrastructure it had before the boom so that when Brexit happened, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase immediately ruled out Dublin as a place to move to.

    In the meantime, house prices have soared and we're now at a point where adding to supply in order to make it more affordable would put a huge amount of people into negative equity. Add in NIMBYism and BANANAism and I can't think of a surer way for a propsective TD to commit political suicide than showing serious intention to build houses.

    The housing crisis is choking the country. It's sending a generation of Irish people abroad, it chokes business and innovation and it's only going to get worse.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭StormForce13


    What, in your mind would "being serious about housing" actually mean? Be specific.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    its virtually impossible to 'run out of money' in modern economies, as money is created on a regular basis in our financial institutions in both the public and private domains, but yes, money 'velocity'(turn over of money) most definitely can slow to potentially dangerous levels, inducing recessions etc. yes irelands deposits are currently at an all time high, but resting money does virtually nothing for the economy, i.e. has virtually no velocity, it just helps to safe guard the banking sector, helping to meet reserve requirements etc, but again, no velocity



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Yeh but you see we need to save the planet

    What’s that them fine Chinese lads a third of the way around the same globe just built another few dozen empty apartment blocks in same time this thread existed? /s

    Oh well it’s a good thing they don’t share the same global climate as us over on planet China where they don’t care



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    we do actually need to save the planet, and theres actually a possibility, we re fcuked in that regard, but taxing and indebting the bollcoks out of the population simply wont work, governments need to take on significant amounts of debt to do so, but they wont, so leaving us in the current fcuked state!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Look at the least well-off people in Ireland. I do charity work on the side, and the long-term unemployed people I deal with often have enough spare cash to go on a two-week holiday to Spain or Portugal during peak season. When even the least well-off in a country can afford that, we—as a country—are rich.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    we clearly mix with different long term unemployed, some i know regularly miss critical payments such as electricity, the odd meal etc etc, many struggling do deal with long term mental health issues, addiction problems, some engage in crime, to try survive, feed addictions etc! holidays, thats funny, some i know havent been on a holiday in decades, some even never, so……

    again, its all relative, wealth is generally stored in the value of assets such as property, if you dont own assets such as property, theres a good chance you re not wealthy, i.e. not rich!



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭StormForce13


    But who claimed that the long term unemployed who go on those their holidays pay their electricity bills?

    Or indeed pay their (tiny) council rent?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Apiarist


    Specific? I can create a full housing plan on 200 pages if someone pays for it. I am not going to put it out here to be nitpicked though.

    Here is the general gist of the plan: be smart and decisive. Some points:

    1. Build enough student accommodation near universities/higher education places to house all students, set fixed rents in those places with one management company across these accommodations. Students must be able to study, and not struggle to get a private space in cramped rooms far away from their school. Use CPOs to buy land and the derelict housing in the city centre and build.
    2. Bring council housing back, big time. Give the power to build and manage housing stock back to local councils. No more handing money out to private landlords or to hotels, these are hugely wasteful. Set council rents to a reasonable level depending on the income — that is if someone becomes rich, their rents should be same as the market rent for the same house.
    3. Government backed mortgage providers. If two people are working, they must be able to get a mortgage, regardless of their salaries.

    All of these solutions need to be a part of a long term budgeted plan, to avail of the economy of scale. These schemes can be not only morally right, but they can be more profitable to the community as a whole, rather than paying rents to foreign investment firms and to hotels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    yup, you ll find many long term unemployed simply cant, or simply wont pay critical bills such as rent, many struggle with serious shame issues, which is a fundamental part of common issues amongst the long term unemployed such as ptsd, and cptsd, some are so ashamed, they simply dont ever interact with supporting charities at all.

    i personally believe critical payments such as rent should in fact be paid from source, but also welfare payments should also be increased at the same time



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭littlefeet


    Has it turned in to .. posters or posters shoehorn their opinion on the unemployed or welfare on to a discussion on the Irish economy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    great proposal, but in this age of financialisation, best of luck with making it happen, even the opposition would struggle to do so!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    welfare and unemployment does need to be a part of the discussion, as it can be a very useful metric to gauge the health of an economy, but its commonly misused, misunderstood, misconstrued, mis……….etc etc etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭thereiver


    We are rich as a country we face rising costs the risks of high tariffs a general recession a housing crisis rising immigration we are in a boom. But every boom comes to an end at some point we are a full employment



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    immigration is the only game in town, after that its potential economic stagnation, later and later retirement, longer and longer working hours etc etc, so take your pick!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭thereiver


    We need immigrants to work in hotels and cafes do we need 100k immigrants a year many of them living in hostels



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    not only do we need them in services, we also need them in other critical sectors such as construction, health services, and their adjacent sectors etc, but since we re now starting to engage in stricter immigration rules, similar to other countries, all thats looking out the window, so get ready, its not gonna be pretty, particularly as we all age!



Advertisement