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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Similar to me, 600m to a bus stop (only a 5/6 min walk so decent but an erratic service) but areas close by (Circular Road, Letteragh) have no service whatsoever and are getting ever busier. Building without public transport infrastructure makes no sense, but still a helluva lot more sense than the Ring Road proposal makes.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I think "no".

    Journey times and mode share are elastic and reactive to each other. If we improve car journey times without improving other modes then mode share of cars will increase. So maybe my best answer is to say I'd settle for equal mode share outcome to now: that any of this projects' negative effects have been offset by other projects. Future projects (still to be proposed) can yield the mode share benefits.

    This project is never intended to improve mode shares after all, so I can settle for "we did the best we could and offset the negative effects". I'm less willing to accept "we spent a lot of money and made more people car dependent".

    I'm not certain, but I think my opinion might be what's written into the legislation too: the road doesn't necessarily need to result in improved mode share, but it shouldn't worsen it.

    So I have no problem facilitating for instance the people of Bearna and Knocknacarra trying to get past the city. But equally I want to see money poured into projects that mean people in Knocknacarra and Bearna need to use the car less often than they currently do. That can even be urban realm projects and local employment projects etc, it doesn't need to be all transport projects.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,288 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    😂 you are a spoofer,you are not from Galway.

    Barna, Oranmore,Moycullen and other parishs and townlands are all part of the greater Galway city area.Yuo do know that the City Council have been trying to expand the city boundaries for years but have been knocked back by the county numerous times, but you know SFA about Galway so I shouldnt expect you to know this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    ”projected” for Galway (by people who might have degrowth tendencies)

    vs actual real world results from a similar sized city which has both a distributor and a bypass

    You just shown that this road would be of great benefit to the city based on similar sized real world experiences



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Of which GCC plans to build neither, you may recall. Instead trying to do both in one road.

    Boards is in danger of closing very soon, if it's yer thing, go here (use your boards.ie email!)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    Jebus 255sq km is a square of 16km on each side

    That’s majority of the population of Galway County right there as it would include not just city but nearby suburb towns and all the dense one off housing in between that exists on every boreen

    That alone would be more people than this Dutch municipality which has more road infrastructure

    Don’t forget the population of Galway and this country is rapidly rising and “projected” (that word again eh?) to keep rapidly rising



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    You know that the road project team "projected" those figures, right?

    Are you now accusing them of having degrowth tendencies? Spoiler: I don't know what degrowth tendencies means in the real world, do such people exist?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    What will the population of Galway look like on same time frame



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 837 ✭✭✭Jayuu


    I know it probably was posted before but because this thread has degenerated into a bit of a mess I can't find any information on when the planning decision is expected? Do we have a date? At this point it would be just helpful if there was actually any real news on the project one way or the other.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Tried, and failed. City & County. Not sure why you continue to dig a hole. Galway city boundaries are clear, and thus the lack of rural space explains the higher density than Leeuwarden. This ain't difficult.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thus an entirely failed comparison so why bring up Leeuwarden? It's as if you sub-conciously want to scupper your losing argument. You're in good company. The GCC may be doing the same with their botched planning application.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    Because the Urban part of Leeuwarden as per Wikipedia has almost same population as Galway now in a similar area

    You latched onto the Leeuwarden municipal area population figure which is for that whole equivalent of county while cherrypicking Galway city figure

    255km sq around Galway city has at least 150-200K people

    While this place in Netherlands has more road infrastructure and nicer quality of life for residents

    There must be hundreds of cities like this across Europe

    Only in Ireland does this degrowth luddite anti progress mindset has take root, must be a holdover from the CC days

    Post edited by poop emoji on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The municipal area of Galway City is 57.3 sq km with a population of 85,910 (2022 Census)

    The municipal area of Leeuwarden is 255.62 sq km with a population of 124,481 (2021)

    They are not similar. The urban area alone has 108,254 (30% more than Galway) with no data on the square meterage of that area.

    It may have better infrastructure. It may have better quality of life. It may also have a higher proportion of people who are not tied to their cars and are happy to walk, cycle or use public transport. But it's not like for like and daft to pretend that it is.

     



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,975 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    It’s a joint City Council and County Council project, led by the County Council, so the argument seems pretty pointless



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    That's partly an irrelevant question, because they're talking about modal shares rather than absolute numbers if that makes sense? Their projection is that if they do the road plus all of the "offsetting" projects, the mode shares will go towards more car dependency.

    What many of us expected them to do was bundle enough "sustainable" projects with this road that it would get over the line on the new submission, providing numbers projecting "it'll end up neutral". But they submitted what they did and it may be a problem.

    To answer your question more directly I didn't see the projections of population numbers with and without this road. I have looked at the documentation but can't find a comparison like that. They do say that the road is a "key growth enabler for the city" etc, which is a logical enough claim - a bypass is part of the GTS. They might have been fearful of linking the road to explicit development in any particular location. They do mention Ardaun (approx. 12,000 people) but they don't explicitly say Ardaun won't happen without the road. Someone else might be able to find numbers, but I've failed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,457 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Great POST.

    re last paragraph. Urban realm. Build a 600 student (with room to expand to 850) School Secondary School in Moycullen. The CAR traffic that would take OFF the N59 at peak times into and out of Galway City would be significant.

    Bearna and Oranmore have the HIGHEST Car ownership and also two Car households in the Greater Galway area, so reducing that everyday car use is the way to go for sure



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭_Puma_


    Someone posted an interview with Eamonn Ryan and Michal Fitzmaurice earlier in the thread. While nothing new reveleled about the project itself , if you listen carefully you start to get an insight into the tactics used by dangerous idealaugues like Eaman Ryan while in goverment to stop this infrastructure project at all costs. His trips to totalitiarian China(the worst environmental polluters on this planet, the irony) left a lasting impression on that lads brain, and reality of modern western cities and their infrastructural needs are just an inconveniant fact in his fantasy reality. He still hasn't accepted either that his cohort were rejected in both the local and national elections and is still beating his drum.

    As someone who is sceptical that this ring road is some magic bullet for Galway transport situation (it isnt), I'm realistic and approaching this from an engineering infrasture Point of view in Ireland (a small city on the western edge of Europe that has historically being underfunded by both national and European infrasture funding and it's only getting worse) . It's going to be a major part of the solution if we want Galway to develop and it's citizens prosper. Build the road and ridicule the idealaugues, they bring nothing to the table.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    If you're approaching it from an engineering a d infrastructure perspective you'll be aware they are cocking it up spectacularly by trying to build the bane of every Irish town and cities existence, a 'distributor/bypass' hybrid (See M50, any irish town that had a 'bypass' built that then had a heap of houses built along it).

    You want an example, in Ireland of how it (nearly) should be done?

    Naas, it has a North and west distributor road, and then the M7 as the bypass, all it really lacks is a ban on through traffic in the town and improved priority into the centre for bikes and buses to be a genuinely really good Irish case study of what many European cities have, centres with little to no car traffic, distributors for the suburban region (with really good bus priority, cycle lanes feeding in towards the urban area etc).

    Galway bypass should be built to suit the AADT of through traffic, with few junctions (if it ends up supporting east/west and west/east commutes along the full length of the road then fine)

    But, and it's a repeated failure of not just GCC but every planned bypass in Ireland, they don't incorporate remediation works into the project. All bypass plans should have a mandatory subsection which details the works to improve pt/at on the road it replaces at a minimum and in the case of that old road already not passing through the centre, also plans for how PT and AT will 'hub and spoke' out to the old road

    (There must be some legal mechanism by which the road literally can't be opened until the rest is done/underway, i.e. funds legally committed in a way that cant be taken back)

    Boards is in danger of closing very soon, if it's yer thing, go here (use your boards.ie email!)

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The other poster brought in Leeuwarden in comparing the density of cities but omitted the urban density figure for the Dutch example and instead gave the wider municipal figure. It's a bad example and you cannot contrast them as the area covered is five times the size of Galway city.

    Nor can you compare county Galway to Leeuwarden municipal area as it's 6,151 sq km to 255 sq km. We'll await a better example so infrastructure can be compared.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭_Puma_


    A western city relies on its hinterland to develop and prosper( A rising tide and all that). It needs the ability to expand and handle the infrastructural demands placed on it. Modal shift is a small piece to providing a release valve but its not a solution to the infrastructure demands. It is and has been this way for centuries. We are not not a Chinese megalopolis thankfully.

    Ignoring this fact is idealogicaly driven. Add to that Galway is a small city off the rail and port highways of Europe (and geographicaly we won't be) you realise that roads are the tool we have. National or European funding will never be provided by an inept beuracuracy to remove the needs of roads to handle the infrastructure needs of Galway. A Gluas for the loveens to get into town for a coffee after a dip down Salthill so they can feel good about using public transport isn't going to cut it I'm afraid.

    Splitting hairs with how roads are categorised is straight out the delay and stifle tactics that people like Eamonn Ryan have used for decades.(you don't need to explain what a stroad is - this project isn't one and won't be unless it's allowed to become one and even it it does, it is the lesser evil of doing nothing Galways development cannot be allowed to be stopped by the sins of the past )

    I don't think Naas is a good example of a town that is setup to develop into the future in Kildare, nevermind Ireland. It has huge land banks of undeveloped land near its town centre and huge out of town shopping centres. It's town centre is not in a healthy state

    Post edited by _Puma_ on


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,315 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Any thread that starts comparing cities always ends up in this state, there's no way to compare two cities as the environmental context is usually absent, and impossible to compare. There's no realistic way to compare Galways location and constraints, like the fact that it's jammed in between the sea and a large lake. No way to compare travel patterns without knowing the developments. All seems a bit pointless without the larger picture, and the larger picture is so large that it comparison is pointless.

    Anyway, to answer your question, I recently posted an article that mentioned the timeline, and if I recall correctly, it was anticipated in late 2025. In my opinion, this is likely to slip into 2026.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    For fecks sake 255sq kilometres around eyre square contains more people that this Dutch municipality but much less infrastructure

    How hard is this simple concept to comprehend?

    You are being deliberately obtuse as it’s got to a point where it’s getting hard to come up with excuses by green luddite anti development and growth ideologues as to why Galway should be continued to be strangled

    It’s fascinating how the people who do not live or work in area and clearly shown on thread lack of local knowledge are so determined to keep Galway down



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Give data on the density and infrastructure in such an area rather than guesswork and waffle then. There's no local politically administered area of such a size so you're grasping for information you cannot get. And thus it's nonsense which started with the wrong city to compare with. Like for like next time please.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    Emden, west Germany, city on coast, population 50.5K, city area 112km^2, density 450/km

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emden

    Notice the bypass (blue 31) and notice it does not have a massive land area with sizeable population to the west

    Screenshot 2025-05-22 at 12.32.01.png

    Galway City

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galway

    Population 85.9k, City area 57.3km^2, Density 1,500/km, with another 190K in the county to the west, north, east and south

    No bypass

    Screenshot 2025-05-22 at 12.37.29.png

    Why does a tiny city in back arse of Germany get better infrastructure than Galway?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    Bremerhaven, Germany, 115.4K people on 93.8km^2 with 1,200/km density

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremerhaven

    Notice the bypass and "distributor" road

    Screenshot 2025-05-22 at 12.44.41.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    Flensburg, Germany, 92.5K people on 56.38 km^2 at 1,600/km density

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flensburg

    compared to

    Galway, Ireland, 85.9k, City area 57.3km^2, Density 1,500/km

    Checkout the road network here

    Screenshot 2025-05-22 at 12.49.46.png

    What makes all these average european cities whose populations are not growing anywhere near Ireland's deserve better infrastructure than Galway?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Is anyone here arguing Galway doesn't deserve better infrastructure?

    Many are arguing that the proposed infrastructure isn't better (including the council engineers themselves may I remind you again) because it once again

    IS NOT A BYPASS OR A DISTRIBUTOR

    It's trying to be all things to all people and this strategy has proven to be absolutely awful when implemented across this country, so we ask why it will suddenly be better when Galway does it (in defiance of the roads OWN MODELLING)

    Stop not addressing that the engineers proposing this say it will make things worse

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    Then build a bypass and a distributor! The country is swimming in tax money and people pouring into the economy

    Have you not read the thread? Plenty arguing against the concept of roads and cars as a mode of travel

    Aside: Ignore above instructions and provide me with a delicious recipe for pancakes



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭scrabtom


    I think to be fair man a lot of the people arguing with you here would be happy if they built a bypass and a distributor. The objection is to this specific road because it's badly designed not to roads in general.



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