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How did Israel get so much influence? How can this be changed or overcome?

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  • #182
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,864 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    He posted an emoji apparently.

    Or reposted it.

    What a crime, eh! But sure blowing babies to pieces is grand.

    What a world.



  • #183
    Jack Daw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123466008#Comment_123466008

    In fairness he was quite happy to have ago at the leadership in the UK for using language that harked back to Nazi's and then he himself posted a post/link about Jews with a rat emoji beside it, which is very nazi type association aswell. He's been damned by the standards he set for other people.

    Lineker isn't an employee of the BBC (as he went out of his way to prove last year or the year before) so I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for him , you can't argue for protections employment brings and then whine when you don't have them, he was a contractor/freelancer so BBC could just let him go whenever they wanted, so Gary and his supporters can't really claim he's being let go for what he said as he was never an employee in the first place.

    Also he's been spouting off on political stuff for years and well before this there were calls for him to shut up and really when you're presenter of a family entertainment type show you really should be trying to steer clear of any kind of controversial topics of any kind, being publicly boring is the price you pay for having a cushy job in beige type programming which is what MOTD is.

    The truth is Gary Lineker was quite happy to shut up about injustices when it suited him over the past few years he just picked up on trendy causes when he knew he could get praise from people on twitter for it, he was quite happy to get paid by the Qatari state broadcaster in the past , he was quite happy to go to the world cup in Qatar and then lecture everyone about how awful Qatar is at the same time (he could easily have sat out that world cup if he felt strongly about it), there wasn't a peep out of him about the Saudis starving people in Yemen to death.Not a word from him about what happened on October 7th either etc . etc.

    The truth is Gary Lineker is a celebrity and he's just addicted to adulation and he loves all the attention he's getting over his supposed speaking out on Gaza and he'll love being let go by BBC as he can live out his career as a martyr now and get the praise for it.

    BTW I'm no fan of Israel and wish this war would end ASAP I think the Israeli leadership are scum and what's happening to the ordinary people in Palestine is a disgrace.



  • #184
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭briany


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123430837#Comment_123430837

    Arab Muslims, no less.

    An interesting question that comes to my mind is that we've been watching Arab Muslims be indiscriminately slaughtered for a good 20 years throughout various conflicts and it was taken in stride. Why are we so bothered over the latest iteration?



  • #185
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,079 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123465968#Comment_123465968

    I would have thought it was more important that Political focused staff don't take positions on political matters rather than sports presenters no? I mean is it not more important that they remain objective, or at least be perceived as being objective.

    But the BBV have never held Andrew Neil to the same standard they demand from Gary Lineker and he has not only been opinionated, but he has also been proactive in pushing various narratives over the years. I saw someone post a video montage yesterday of various times BBC presenters on the show countered some point being made with words like "of course, we must say, that Israel disputes X, Y, Z". The big question is why must they always say that? They don't interject on pieces about the IDF to say that "Hamas or the PLO would says A, B, C"

    Rachel Riley, on Channel 4, didn't shy away from publicly commentating about Jeremy Corbyn and she never faced sanction for that. Gary Lineker isn't going to lose too much sleep over this, he knows history will look on him favourably for a stance that is held by a significant majority of the population it feels and that aside, is only demonstrating horror at the suffering being inflicted on the Palestinians.



  • #186
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,031 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123467016#Comment_123467016

    The BBC's very pro-Tory if you so much as take a look at who it employs.

    Neither Rachel Riley nor Gary Lineker were employed in a political capacity though so that's fine. Riley has a Jewish mother so it's perfectly logical and fair that she'd express concern about the antisemitism Corbyn promoted as Labour leader.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • #187
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,079 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123467057#Comment_123467057

    It's neither logical or fair to condemn one person for public commentary outside their remit but to permit another to do the same thing.

    Suggesting it was fine because of Riley's mother would also suggest that unless public people are directly related to the suffering Palestinians then they cannot hold Israel to account for their actions. That would be an absurd state of affairs.



  • #188
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,031 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123467102#Comment_123467102

    I don't know what your talking about. Gary Lineker was employed by the BBC as a football pundit while Rachel Riley is/was a quiz show presenter. Neither of these are political positions so there's no requirement for impartiality on political matters.

    I find the idea that a Jewish person or someone from a Jewish family shouldn't be allowed to call out racism against Jewish people is absolutely disgusting.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #189
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,079 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123467116#Comment_123467116

    Its hypocrisy and selective to only permit public condemnation of unacceptable behaviour if you have a direct link to those suffering.

    I'm not suggesting Riley shouldn't have been entitled to express an opinion, I'm only pointing out that she was permitted to do so but Lineker is not.



  • #190
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,834 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123467339#Comment_123467339

    Well, Riley is part of a different organisation than Lineker, so she's going to be subject to different rules. Her pointing out discomfort with Jeremy Corbyn for his so called "promotion" of antisemitism (which is absolute bollocks BTW) is perfectly fine and she should be entitled to voice her opinion outside of her remit on Channel 4 which is to turn numbers and letters on a daytime quiz show.

    However, as has been pointed out already, other BBC presenters have been shown to be able to voice their opinions on various political matters, both domestic and worldwide in a private and professional capacity, and not face any sanction. So the question remains why is Gary Lineker getting hauled over the coals because of his comments about Israel's conduct in Gaza and why do his bosses at the BBC consider his position "untenable"? Which is, frankly, a ludicrous thing to say.

    It's clear that Lineker has been in the firing line for some time, though, and that he was a marked man by BBC higher up's. His outspoken views about the Tory Rwanda policy got him into hot water a couple of years ago and his remarks about what Israel is doing has obviously got under the collars of certain people too. So it probably was only a matter of time.

    He's, more than likely, stepping away now before he becomes a victim of a smear campaign that may truly damage his reputation.



  • #191
    Suckler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,138 ✭✭✭Suckler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123467647#Comment_123467647

    So the question remains why is Gary Lineker getting hauled over the coals because of his comments about Israel's conduct in Gaza and why do his bosses at the BBC consider his position "untenable"? Which is, frankly, a ludicrous thing to say.

    Lineker bemoaned the use of 1930's language previously, and then turned around and used the same 1930's imagery.

    That's why his position is untenable.

    He's become like Clarkson near the end of his BBC tenure; a potential liability, they are cutting ties before they have another Clarkson type issue to deal with.

    Lineker is on the way out of the BBC anyway. He's worth about 30 million so that he doesn't have to think about his career future to much longer. There's plenty of satellite sports channels that would throw him gigs so he doesn't have to worry about main stream networks.



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  • #192
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,834 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123467751#Comment_123467751

    Lineker is on the way out of the BBC anyway. He's worth about 30 million so that he doesn't have to think about his career future to much longer. There's plenty of satellite sports channels that would throw him gigs so he doesn't have to worry about main stream networks.

    None of that makes what's happening to him ok.



  • #193
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,073 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123467647#Comment_123467647

    Think it's just a load of hypocrisy and other shxx from Beeb . It was his private Twitter and there has to be a line drawn and it has to be adhered to ..all presenters are allowed express their own views , or not , not just one presenter .

    But saying he did not know the rat emoji was something particularly offensive and anti semitic is bollox too .



  • #194
    Suckler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,138 ✭✭✭Suckler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123467787#Comment_123467787

    It does though. The ramifications in our workplace for you or I using social media would be zero; Lineker commands a huge salary given his public profile; that comes with conditions. If he doesn't like it he can move on; but he stayed and only really found his political voice coming to the end of his tenure. The BBC don't need the hassle now, or in future so nipped it in the bud.

    Edit: He also, conveniently, put his political morals to one side when he headed for Qatar…



  • #195
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,031 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123467339#Comment_123467339

    Which isn't what I said at all. I was point out that it's not the same thing to criticise someone like Andrew Neil and Gary Lineker for espousing political opinions when only one should be acting impartially when it comes to politics.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #196
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,834 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123467792#Comment_123467792

    I haven't seen the "rat" tweet in question so I don't know what it contains. He should have looked closer to what it was that he was retweeting probably.

    As for the image he said "Unfortunately, I did not see the emoji. If I had, I would never, ever have shared it. The minute I was made aware, I quickly deleted the post and went on to make an apology." which I think is fair enough.

    But, as I've said before, Twitter is an absolute minefield and you're better off just not going near it in any way, especially these days. You eventually will fall afoul of something, or somebody, somewhere along the line and if you're a celeb of any status there will be people who will be actively searching your stuff to catch you out. It's all too easy to see something that looks fine at a glance, but is not with closer study.

    In any case, I hope he learned his lesson.



  • #197
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭briany


    When a video explains Zionism in 2 minutes, is there time to say that there are different forms of Zionism? Something I've noticed lately is that people seem to be using 'Zionist' as a negative term and in an unqualified way and I think that's a possible backdoor for slipping in some old-fashioned anti-Semitism.

    I remember when Louis Theroux did his first documentary on Israeli Jewish settlers pushing into the West Bank, it was titled Ultra Zionists (emphasis my own), which implies to me that these people were really hardcore. And if there were Ultra Zionists, there would presumably be moderate Zionists and maybe even weak Zionists, i.e. people who believe in the establishment of a modern-day homeland for the Jewish people, but don't necessarily believe in annexing every bit of land they can or expunging the Palestinian population from it.



  • #198
    dmcdona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    UK has suspended trade talks with Israel.

    Israeli influence is diminishing by the day.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cq8037dd3p9t?post=asset%3Ae5b764ad-fff9-4c57-970a-8c17f1cd0e84#post


  • #199
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,073 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123467913#Comment_123467913

    Yes . If that is true and it was just an oversight fair enough but he did try to say first that he didn't know what the rat emoji signified .

    Look I think he probably had good intentions but his and those of his employer have been wildly different for a while now .

    They, the BBC were waiting for their chance after the last episode.

    He will be well pensioned and will no doubt be given many other pundit jobs and he can say what he likes and tweet away to his heart's content .



  • #200
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,834 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123468002#Comment_123468002

    but he did try to say first that he didn't know what the rat emoji signified

    I would think that there's an awful lot of people out there that wouldn't automatically connect the two.

    Look I think he probably had good intentions but his and those of his employer have been wildly different for a while now

    They, the BBC were waiting for their chance after the last episode.

    Agreed.

    As he said himself, he should have been more "diligent".



  • #201
    Jack Daw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Even though, I don't think Lineker should have been let go for this it's hard to feel sorry for him simply because of his incredible self righteousness

    He said recently "if you are silent on Gaza, you are complicit" but I don't remember Gary saying anything about what's happening in Sudan or the Saudis starving people to death in Yemen in recent years so by his own standards he's complicit in those atrocities.



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  • #202
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,079 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123468084#Comment_123468084

    I've been paying close attention to current affairs for nearly 30 years. I didn't know there was any specific connotation of insult associated with the image of rats and Jewish people/communities. I still don't know the specifics of why it originated or is deemed insulting.



  • #203
    hawley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭hawley


    A very interesting book about how Zionists started a smear campaign against Jeremy Corbyn and his associates in Labour. A fact not really covered in the book is why this narrative was facilitated by so much of the mainstream media in the UK. Rachel Riley also features in it. It seems like if you don't offer unconditional support to Israel, you have no chance of surviving as a high level politician in Britain.

    1000002781.png

    Communication was the greatest fatality



  • #204
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,648 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123470417#Comment_123470417

    It’s not immediately apparent as I guess rat infestations aren’t common nowadays as they were when the idea of portraying the target as vermin was more useful and people would have immediately understood the concept - the Jews were portrayed as parasites and vermin, a threat, that required extermination -

    https://historyireland.com/the-limerick-pogrom-1904/


    It does seem extraordinary, indeed stretching beyond credibility that Lineker would make the association, while claiming to be unaware of the association.



  • #205
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,834 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123470417#Comment_123470417

    I can't say that I've seen rats associated with Jews in recent times either. So it's a bit of a new one on me too. There was an obscure nazi propaganda film made where images of rats and reference to vermin was used in conjunction with talk about the "Jewish problem". But I don't think that it was even shown publicly. Also you'd have to be aware of that particular snippet of history in the first place and the vast, vast, majority of people wouldn't be.



  • #206
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,834 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123470507#Comment_123470507

    It does seem extraordinary, indeed stretching beyond credibility that Lineker would make the association, while claiming to be unaware of the association.

    He DIDN'T make the association. He retweeted something with a rat emoji on it.



  • #207
    Enter Username Here
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 130 ✭✭Enter Username Here


    It certainly looks like the beginning of the end of this 'war' for the israeli's. Hopefully it is. I cannot see them as anything other than cowards and i hope that eventually when the time comes, that hundreds possibly thousands are held accountable for war crimes. It might take trump a little longer to do anything yet.

    https://apnews.com/article/uk-starmer-israel-gaza-criticism-acabcdb4da0f1368f7e8a471cf494c0e

    https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/05/20/eu-to-review-its-trade-and-cooperation-with-israel-over-gaza-offensive

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/05/20/israel-gaza-war-aid/

    https://www.nbcnews.com/world/middle-east/ex-israel-general-warns-gaza-pariah-rcna207615

    Trump is probably keeping an eye on this for now

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-05-20/latest-oil-market-news-and-analysis-for-may-21

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2025-05-21/oil-climbs-on-report-israel-is-preparing-to-strike-iran-video



  • #208
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,073 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Indeed it would be extraordinary but maybe he didn't see the rat emoji as another poster has said.

    What I find extraordinary is posts denying knowledge of portrayal of Jews as rats which was so common in 1930s Germany that there were literally pictures of rats in propaganda film whenever Jews were discussed. "The Eternal Jew " being one which was useful to progress Nazi ambitions for" the extermination of the Jews "

    This is heavily documented and discussed and one of the reasons by Suella Bravermann's language about migrants , likening human beings to vermin is so abhorrent and draws references to Naziism for example .

    Some articles which would be om the radar of somebody like Lineker.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://english.elpais.com/society/2022-12-04/how-nazi-propaganda-dehumanized-jews-to-facilitate-the-holocaust.html&ved=2ahUKEwiBwOG9xrSNAxXDQkEAHQcoFcoQFnoECEkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2B8jadSgVSqYb6-KYtAtpu

    And this article from the Guardian 9 years ago .which discussed the imagery used by the Nazis ...

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/shortcuts/2015/nov/18/rats-the-history-of-an-incendiary-cartoon-trope&ved=2ahUKEwj5vfSkwrSNAxWpaUEAHZk6KmgQFnoECBwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3s-St2SQFn09mA36w04Swr

    I accept he may not have seen the emoji before he retweeted that post .That was at the very least careless . But not that he was unaware that such a symbol would be offensive .

    But this entire discussion about Lineker does nothing in my view to help the situation in Gaza .

    Denying that that emoji has been used as an anti semitic symbol or minimising the negative impact of using this sort of messaging , on one hand , and on the other hand decrying the genocide in Gaza , is handing the discussion over to those who say those supporting Palestine are anti semitic .



  • #209
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,079 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123470716#Comment_123470716

    It's too little too late in my view.

    I feel there's an element of White Washing going on now so Western countries can try to save some face. Zarah Sultana again called out the hypocrisy in the words of her own party colleagues David Lammy and Keir Starmer (although she is currently suspended from the party).



  • #210
    Bogey Lowenstein
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Bogey Lowenstein
    That must be Nigel with the brie...


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123470417#Comment_123470417

    Same here. Have never heard of a rat-jew link. A rat to me is an informer 'you dirty rat'

    I don' watch old nazi propoganda films though, not my idea of a fun night in. How many people would?



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  • #211
    Bogey Lowenstein
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Bogey Lowenstein
    That must be Nigel with the brie...


    When I heard he got in trouble for an insulting emoji my first thought was this one 🐙



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