The Last of Us - HBO *Spoilers* See warning in post #1

The zombie apocalypse stuff was always secondary. Even in the first season, the story was about Joel and Ellie's relationship; Joel finding something/someone worth living for rather than just surviving in the world, and Ellie exploring the world with someone she grew to care for after spending her life growing up in quarantine with no family and a real bad case of survivor's guilt.

The actual character stories have to be central, otherwise you don't care what happens to the characters when they're in danger. The zombie apocalypse is just the backdrop to the characters' story arcs.

I'm not saying they've done a great job with the Ellie & Dinah side of things this season, but if it was constantly just fights against infected, little to no character development, and human survivor groups who are just plain evil with no moral ambiguity whatsoever, well then the show just becomes The Walking Dead.

I think that comes down to two main factors. In the first season, you have to have a strong focus on the infected and the effects of the virus because you have to set up the rules and bounds of the world the show takes place in. Whereas in the second season, you then know all that and bar some evolution or modifications we already know how and what the infected can do.

Secondly, Joel & Ellie in season 1 were travelling alone across the length of the country with little-to-no supplies or equipment, and Ellie was very inexperienced. In Season 2, the first few episodes were set in the (mostly) protected town of Jackson, and then Ellie & Dinah have travelled to Seattle but both are fairly experienced due to their time doing patrols and all their training in Jackson. So again, the infected are still a danger, but somewhat less so.

Now there's more of a focus on the two warring factions in Seattle that Ellie & Dinah have found themselves in the middle of in their hunt for Abby. Again though, the infected are merely a backdrop in that.

But I would also say, if you knew nothing about the program and standalone watched one of the earlier episodes this season, yeah, you'd have trouble grasping the apocalypse side of things. But not every episode should focus on that, because you have to set up the character stories and personal stakes for the audience to care about what happens to the characters in times of danger. And if someone jumps into a show 12 or 13 episodes in and doesn't understand what's happening… that's their own problem.

Loved last night's episode.

Totally engrossing and explained so much .( In fact I think it might have been better placed earlier on the season for that reason ? )

Beautiful acting by both Ramsay and Pascal . Really good .

We were in tears watching it at the end .

An amazing episode, but I'm kinda annoyed they left it to episode 6 to tie things up, the last few episodes were absolutely crap, I could have done with this one earlier!

They have made a huge mistake killing Joel, I don't care what happens in game they could have changed it! The strength of this programme for me has always been about yhe relationship. That whole episode in season 1 about the two gay partners was one of the best things I have ever seen, and this one was up there aswell.

The bring out the best of each other, Bella acting was amazing in this episode alongside Joel. I just don't buy her and Dinah together too immature.

Well roll on last episode, I'll either love it or hate it!

Agreed. And they have been making changes from the game along the way to both improve some bits that weren't great in the game, or to use the fact it's TV to show additional things, other characters conversations not involving the playable character etc, which is harder to do in the game.

But Joel's death is the singular event that the entire second game centers around. Everything depends on it happening. If Joel didn't die and instead it was Tommy or Dinah, absolutely everything changes. As we saw in this latest episode, Ellie isn't just devastated by Joel's death just because he was essentially her father at this stage, it was because they were on the outs with each other for a while but had just had this breakthrough that could be the start of rebuilding their relationship… and then Joel was killed before it happened. He died before they could make up. That's a powerful motivator for Ellie beyond just "Revenge for death of someone they know".

Plus of course Abby's whole motivation is to kill Joel because he killed her father, and the rest of her group go along with her not just because of that, but also knowing he killed a bunch of their Firefly friends, ended the chance at a cure etc. If instead they killed someone else instead of Joel, then they just become cartoonish psychopathic villains.

Killing off Joel is absolutely a big loss to the show, just like it was to the game (a lot of gamers got waaaaayyyyy too attached to Joel and directed huge abuse at the voice actress who played Abby in the game, including death threats directed towards her newborn son). But it's the entire crux of the story going forward. Not a chance they could have changed it without just coming up with an entirely new story instead of adapting the second game.

Yeah, it was the night before the attack on Jackson and Joel's death (the last bit of episode 1 is that night when people are walking past the exposed pipe and we see the strands of the fungus moving, which then leads to the horde attack on Jackson the next day), so Joel & Ellie had only just had the conversation where they could start mending their relationship, but then never got the chance to.

As for Eugene, I don't think Joel had any intention of letting Eugene get back to Jackson, which is why he sent Ellie off to get the horses. I think particularly when Eugene seemed unsure which path led back to Jackson (you'd think he'd be familiar with the way considering he was a former Firefly, he was on patrol etc), Joel knew he had to put him down, and Joel knew it'd be too big a risk both moving Eugene back to Jackson and once he got there. Not to mention they'd still have to kill Eugene probably right in front of his wife which could be even more traumatic.

I don't think Ellie was completely in the wrong in telling the woman what happened in that Ellie probably felt she deserved to know the truth, though she likely couldn't be sure that Eugene definitely would have made it back and been able to talk to her before he died.

I took it that Ellie realised that Joel had blatantly lied to her for a 2nd time with the "I promise" line and same facial expression. Felt sorry for Gail but I think Ellie had reached her fill of Joel's BS (in that moment not knowing Joels full reasons for lying to her at the end of Season 1) regarding important events in other people's lives. I thought it was well done and added a bit more build up to the dance hall and porch scene when