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Energy infrastructure

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 The 1922 Committee


    The human eye perceives things differently than when the same object is shown in a photograph. If you have ever tried to capture a firework display on camera the resulting pictures pale compared to the actual display which you observed. A wind farm 5KM off shore is a major reduction in visual amenity. It has to be worth it and for the greater good to justify its presence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,792 ✭✭✭✭josip


    From that article; the reason Vattenfall gave for cancelling their offshore is a bit ironic.

    Vattenfall announced in July 2023 it would stop work on the Norfolk Boreas offshore wind farm in England.

    It said costs had risen by 40% due to an increase in global gas prices impacting the cost of manufacturing. 

    Post edited by josip on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,089 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Right there you have the very reason Gazprom funded Green anti-nuclear movements in Europe and bribed a well known German Chancellor.

    The best renewables capacity factors are less than 50%, meaning you are forever going to be locked into burning vast amounts of gas. The Orcs just love renewables and hate nuclear for this very reason. They are apparently engaged in talks with the US about bringing about the resumption of gas exports to Europe.

    Being in favour of renewables is both Pro Orc and pro CO2 - the bad sort of irony.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭gjim


    The Orcs just love renewables and hate nuclear for this very reason.

    🙄 absolute nonsense. They're one of the main sources of anti-renewable propaganda. MAGA and the Russian's point man, Trump, have a very consistent attitude towards renewables which you share. Anti-renewables is part of the MAGA package and goes along with all the other Russian propaganda - anti-LGBTQ, anti-NATO, anti-Europe, authoritarianism, anti-liberalism, anti-environmentalism, etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,919 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Under Trump the US is now burning 45% of its corn crop via the biofuel scam - you must be very happy…..🙄



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Climate change kills more birds than the bird blenders.

    Visual amenity ? Energy is a necessity. Yes we should insulate everything possible instead of wasting energy on heating , but beyond that it's a choice of what generator goes where. And the choice of where and what are limited.

    Should Incinerators be forced on communities that block wind or solar ?

    Denizens of lower population density areas must not be compensated more than those in urban areas near fossil fuel power plants or overhead pylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭gjim


    Under Trump the US is now burning 45% of its corn crop via the biofuel scam - you must be very happy…..🙄

    Is this supposed to be a "gotcha"? 🙄

    I'm not happy, and I wasn't happy when the same thing was happening under predecessors like Biden and I'm not happy with the special-interest lobbying going on trying to promote the same thing in the EU. Growing crops for biofuel production is a horrible and expensive form of greenwashing that makes no sense at any level.

    It might shock you, but do you realize that most of us don't just pick a side from some fake "culture war" dichotomy and then mindlessly adopt a bunch of positions and opinions, like you seem to do?

    Particularly when it comes to thinking about electricity generation technology?

    We're trying to have an engineering discussion here, not a political one. But you keep seeing imaginary attacks on your "identity".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Worst third man tackle ever! As gjim says there isn't some renewable team playbook that folk subscribe to. I've openly criticised solar farms on productive Irish farmland.

    As for corn 🌽 it is quite simply one of the biggest examples of corporate capture of government institutions. Growing a monocrop that does not use pollinators on such a scale is profound ecosystem damage and even a threat to human existence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 The 1922 Committee


    To who exactly in Ireland is this Datacenter other than the proposers a "necessity"?

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2025/0509/1511958-data-centre/

    Scarce resources will go in to building it and powering it for the rest of its design life.

    Post edited by The 1922 Committee on


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Our minimum demand is a quarter of peak demand.

    Datacenters use power more consistently and so subsidise the grid. On a global scale a datacentre here would need less cooling than most other places, so lower carbon emissions.

    There's already offshore wind near Arklow and a lot more planned.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 The 1922 Committee


    I do not believe that trickle down enviro-economics as espoused by big Industry works especially when it involves diverting scarce resources to big industry with low multiplier effects like data centers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 The 1922 Committee


    This is a scarce resource:

    1000016237.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,428 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Really? Was Gerhard Schroeder MAGA? How about Frau Merkel? Both of these German leaders started or accelerated Germany's nuclear phase-out and concurrent increase in gas imports from Russia.

    A policy which has been an utter disaster. BTW Trump's domestic policy or campaign slogan in 2016 was "Trump digs coal" showing he favoured low costs, energy independence and jobs for miners above any other concern.

    Naturally I don't agree with that as coal has been obsolete since the 1950s when we developed atomic energy and should have been phased out for nuclear replacements from then on.

    To be fair, the corn ethanol stuff didn't start in 2017.

    Energy is a necessity, but these ugly, expensive, unreliable, bird chomping, bat killing monstrosities are not a requirement for energy. In fact, they're not even a requirement for clean energy. France has had near-zero CO2/kwh energy since the 1980s, but we insist on spending decades, untold billions and industrialising our landscape on a scale almost unprecedented in human history, just to get a pathetic imitation of what the French did half a century ago.

    That, most certainly, is not a necessity.

    The thing is, we can blame Russia for carpet bombing Bakhmut, Mariupol etc but carpet bombing all our hilltops and coastlines with these ghastly metal/fibreglass monsters, we're doing that to ourselves for no real reason, thanks ironically to so-called "environmentalists" 😐️

    As for me, if I were presented with the choice of the following in my "back yard" of 1) an incinerator 2) a thermal power station 3) wind turbines or 4) a nuclear plant. I would go with the nuclear plant. Every. single. time.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Gas is what displaced domestic coal in the US, UK, Spain and Germany. Renewables are now displacing gas.

    You can replace a old 28% thermal efficiency coal plant with an up to 60% CCGT one. So you can get twice the electricity from a fuel that has half the CO2 emissions. Gas is also faster responding so you can ramp up later and ramp down sooner, overall saving at least 75% of old coal's emissions.

    If you have a choice of gas that will reduce emissions by 75%, or one that will reduce them by 100% but will arrive 10 years later then the break even point is 40 years away, by which time gas while have been replaced by, or converted to zero emissions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,428 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Gas in Europe also emboldened Vladimir Putin to attack Russia's neighbours knowing he had the rest of Europe by the short and curlies. For that reason alone, we can conclude that the decision to promote gas power in Europe was a grave mistake.

    As for the rest of your second paragraph, it's fine in theory but the fact remains that as as of now, the only way to get a near-zero CO2 power grid is through either hydroelectricity or nuclear, or if your country is like Iceland, geothermal. As a practical matter, if we desire "carbon neutral" energy, the only examples we have to follow today are those of France, Switzerland, Sweden, Finland and Ontario in Canada.

    France | App | Electricity Maps

    And I'm not sure you want to use Spain as an example given that their overreliance on solar power helped cause the recent Iberian power outage.

    The Night the Lights Went Out in Geor- er, Spain || Peter Zeihan

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭gjim


    Really? Was Gerhard Schroeder MAGA? How about Frau Merkel? Both of these German leaders started or accelerated Germany's nuclear phase-out and concurrent increase in gas imports from Russia.

    This doesn't make a spick of sense. Cnocbui claimed that "Orcs love renewables". I countered that claim "No they don't - they're like their MAGA philosophical soul mates, they hate renewables". Why would Merkel be MAGA on this basis?

    You and cnocbui need to take this rubbish over to the Conspiracy Theory group where you can argue that "The Russians are behind the growth of renewables". Do you not see how unhinged this claim sounds? The second biggest fossil fuel economy in the world has been covertly trying to encourage investment in renewables?

    The biggest importer of Orc LNG in Europe last year was France btw. So, using Monty Python logic that you guys seem fond of, this means "nuclear power is funding the murder of Ukrainians".



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Way off topic but the Russian economy has massively shrunk and Trump's trashing of the dollar means they don't make much from fossil fuel exports anymore.

    Germany messed up by thinking that they could keep Putin on side by trading. Instead they are now accelerating the phasing out of coal. Renewables means Europe can give two fingers to OPEC+ and the US and Others.

    If nuclear was dispatchable then Spain could have ramped up their NPPs or imported extra French nuclear. But since nuclear is a one trick pony, only capable of providing baseload power at peaking plant prices, that didn't happen.

    The problem was with transmission not generation.

    As more renewables come on line there'll be more storage and that's dispatchable



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,919 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Not true - direct habitat destruction is the biggest cause, and wind farms on the likes of peatlands and other sensitive habitats are a growing factor in that. Thats b4 you get to issues with already rare species like vultures being particularly vulnereable to collisions

    https://4vultures.org/blog/wind-farm-developments-in-thrace-threaten-iconic-vulture-species/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 827 ✭✭✭Exiled Rebel


    With all due respect but that paper is compromised by it's funder.

    I looked into the issue after reading your post and came across this interesting tidbit from the BBC >>>

    Something a little more relevant to Ireland as opposed to a potentially biased report from Greece.

    It states...

    "Few studies have investigated the phenomenon, but estimates suggest that between 10,000 and 100,000 birds are killed by turbine blade strikes annually in the UK."

    "That’s a lot, but it’s worth noting that approximately 55 million birds are killed in the UK each year by domestic cats."

    "Nevertheless, research suggests there may be ways to make wind turbines safer for wildlife. For example, a small-scale study in Norway found that painting one of the wind turbines blades black, reduced bird deaths by 70 per cent."

    So perhaps the solution lies in painting a blade black.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ece3.6592

    No conflict of interest declared.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 andrewwakiki9


    Converting Tarbert power station from oil to gas was definitely mentioned on some part of Boards.ie before. Requires googling though.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,792 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Solar has been getting dispatched down for the last few weeks. Does anyone know why is that?

    Is it only occurring for some specific farms? GreenCollective believe it's happening for Gillinstown and Gallanstown.

    (I'm interested in the technical reasons for this, not the political agenda theories.)



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Climate change poses the single greatest long-term threat to nature, and the RSPB recognises the essential role of renewable energy in addressing this challenge. And the RSPB have been bird nuts since 1889.

    No ifs, No buts, No maybes.

    The only devil in the detail is how to make the renewables more wildlife friendly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭gjim


    Sorry I don't have the answer but am interested about where you get your data? The eirgrid dashboard need a serious overhaul.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,792 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Agree about the Eirgrid dashboard. I can only hope that the next version is similar to the UK dash.

    Green Collective post the previous day's generation daily on Bluesky. Not sure what their source is for the Solar Data.

    https://bsky.app/profile/greencollective.io

    Their most recent monthly newsletter on their website had a piece about Gallanstown/Gillinstown

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,919 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Total red herring - cats kill common garden birds around human settlements. Wind Farms kill a large number of rare soaring birds like eagles, vultures etc. and displace them from already shrinking habitat. The link I posted is from the top experts in Vulture Conservation in Europe working across key habitats. Their work is published across relevant scientific journals like Nature etc. Your attempt to rubbish there work says alot about your own agenda. This is also relevant to key seabird habitats in the Irish Sea and organisations like Birdwatch Ireland have already sounded the alarm on the governments developer led approach that has totally ignored the presence of endagered birds like Roseate Terns on Rockabill Island which will be heavily impacted if the likes of the Dublin Array goes ahead. ABP have recently sought more information from these developers as their initial EIS failed to properly account for these impacts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,919 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Actually habitat destruction and direct killing is the No. 1 threat

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/14/five-biggest-threats-natural-world-how-we-can-stop-them-aoe

    And the RSPB themselves have objected to numerious wind farms on that basis

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-humber-37105175

    PS - you don't save nature by destroying it, something you wind power groupies don't seem to be able to get your head around when it comes to the likes of wind power, biofuels, destructive hydro dams etc.. If climate is a threat then protecting and restoring key natural climate buffers and Carbon storage like peatlands delivers far better results than destroying these key habitats via destructive windfarm developments that ultimatly have to be backed up by fossil fuel sources most of the time



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Round Cable


    One interesting thing from Green Collective's data is the shift in the use of Turlough Hill pumped storage plant.

    It used to pump mostly at night when demand is lowest and wind is strongest. Now, on sunny days, it's pumping during peak solar hours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,062 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    In the last 10 years solar has become more viable. Not only the solar that's provided to households but there's also a lot of solar farms popping up here and in the UK. 2 countries that would previously have been thought to not have much solar capacity



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,062 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    https://www.rte.ie/news/2025/0512/1512503-lng-kerry/

    Looks like it will be another few years before it gets the go-ahead. Whether you think it's right or wrong, the delay that the judicial review will cause is the worst thing about this



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 827 ✭✭✭Exiled Rebel


    I have no dog in this fight ergo I have no agenda. This is just my 2nd post on the topic.

    But to say a report published by a vulture conservation organisation isn't going to be tainted by bias is just not credible. It is they who have an agenda.

    So I have to ask, what is your solution to our growing energy needs if wind turbines are anathema to bird conservationists?



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