Ireland. The most expensive housing in western Europe

Oh look over there - it's Joe Duffy, Eurovision and Skorts !

We have some of the highest wages in the world too, rspeciallly in the public sector ( I do not know how people who work in Pennys or Tesco or Supermacs survive ), so what do people expect? An estate agent friend says those that are buying houses work mostly in multinationals or in the public sector eg university lecturers or semi states eg ESB.

Credit flows to those with the most income and most secure jobs.

I knew we were way out of sync with other European countries when it comes to rent but thought we were in line when it comes to purchase prices ( albeit mortgage rates are higher here generally speaking)

It is easier for people in the public sector to buy housing, as the median wage for public sector employees in 2022 was €52,288, compared with €37,286 in the private sector, according to the PBO’s data, which was derived from Central Statistics Office (CSO) figures compiled over the past 11 years.

Plus job security and pension helps as well. Any estate agent will tell you the classic picture of the retired guard with the flat or apartment for rent is not unusual, as a lot of retired public servants eg lecturers, gardai etc buy - at least down the country where it is cheaper - an apartment with the 18 months salary tax free lump sum they get on retirement. That is helping support the price of property too.

That's an invalid comparison. There are no "unskilled" jobs in the public sector: most public sector jobs are clerical and require third level qualifications, while a large share of private employment is in retail, hospitality and general services - all (mostly) unskilled sectors that as a result have low pay rates. That large volume of low-paid private jobs brings down the median private salary, but there's no equivalent population on the public payroll to do the same there. When you compare like for like, clerical with clerical, private sector salaries are higher than public, even at the entry level. From middle management upwards, the gap widens and at the very top, private salaries are multiples of public ones. Public pensions are better than private, of course, so it's a choice people make between short term or long term income.

Job security is by far the major factor that favours public workers in mortgage decisions. Banks hate risk, so being able to accurately predict the borrower's income over the term of the loan counts a lot.

As for your "retired garda" anecdote, it's just that - an anecdote. But think it through a little. Retired people, even those retiring at 50, didn't have to buy their primary residence in today's market, they could have afforded to buy on a 20 year term, and are now sitting on considerable equity on that property, which puts them at enormous advantage when buying a second property. It's irrelevant whether their job was public or private sector. (And if you think it's unfair that a patrol garda can retire at 50, try doing that job... I wouldn't)

I am a private sector worker for what it's worth, but I still find the anti-public-sector arguments to be based more on manufactured grievance than facts. Same goes for the opposite version you often hear from public sector employees. People make choices. Neither type of job is better, but bitching about how "the other side" has it easy distracts from where the real issues lie in housing: an economic model that treats dwellings as investment vehicles rather than basic infrastructure.

The idea that everyone needs to buy a house is very much true, if you intend to retire with the same standard of accommodation you live in during your working career.

Show me the percentage of workers today that could afford to pay their Dublin rents in retirement. If its even 5%, I would be surprised.

In other words, if you rent all your career, you are going to end up on the social housing list when you retire; good luck with that.

There are no homes available and even if you eventually get a housing offer, you almost certainly wont end up with a council place in the area you are living in today.

…so the problem is in fact, we ve severely destabilised our most critical of markets, to the point, even renting is now a great risk! many other countries have created far more stable property markets, including rental markets, yet we re doing the exact opposite!

In terms of disposable income, we're fairly mid-ranking; below most Western European countries and below the EU average, so our housing costs are not justified.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income

Yes, I agree.

Yet in today's Ireland, local councils do not build council homes.

Councils may purchase some homes from private developers and they are gifted some homes from private developers via Part V; but the councils do not build their own homes at scale.

For as long as the Irish govt persists with not forcing councils to build their own council homes at the necessary scale, people will be correct in thinking that they need to purchase their own home, in order to secure their future retirement.

There are no signs at all that the govt is going to force a direct local authority council home building programme, therefore, people need to buy their own home.

the problems are all encompassing now, including severe planning problems, costs of labour(including the severe lack of available labour, and the severe lack of government attempts in even try address this problem ), materials, land etc etc, but again, its also the speculative nature of our property markets that wasnt as well developed in the past.

objections are not only due to us green lefties or even the almost none existent socialist in ireland, but almost right across the political spectrum, in particular from current property owners, oh btw, ireland is primarily a centrist voting country, hence why the same kind of governments keep forming

I agree.

Force councils to build their own council properties and you force them to zone development land, which enables higher delivery of both social and private housing units.

The private market is not going to produce enough housing supply to support both the private and social markets, and nor should it.

The govt and local councils need to get their own house in order, literally, and start building.

It goes without saying that the rent caps are further strangulating private investment and private housing supply.

Young people be better off not working , going on HAP and Getting a council house after 7-10 years for small rent every week instead of killing themselves paying back the price of a similar house themselves over 30 long years scrimping and going without

It can work if enough homes are built. The problem is supply of homes.

The govt/councils are not building any homes and are leaving all the heavy lifting to the private sector.

They want the private sector to build all of the private homes and almost all of the social homes as well!

At the same time, the govt are disincentivising the private sector from building, by sustaining the rent caps, which is cutting the jugular of private investment.

The output of all of the above is, not surprisingly, very limited new supply.

yes, but again, the private sector is hardwired to maximize financial outcomes, i.e. its doing exactly what is been designed to do so, but our political system is stuck, it has spent most of the last couple of decades trying to outsource to the market, and now it doesnt know how to pivot back again. during this process, our state institutions have been de-resourced to carry out such tasks, as you said, very little building now occurs in the public domain, i.e. the knowledge has been outsourced to the private sector, we clearly need to re-resource these state institutions, but this currently isnt happening, or happening at a rate thats required, we dont know how to do it, and we have significantly curtailed the states ability to so, including financially, for example we convinced ourselves when a government runs a deficit, it will lead to the end of the world, when in fact, this isnt 100% true, only partly, it all depends, so now, in order to run our economies, we primarily do so via private sector funding, i.e. credit, which again, is hardwired to maximise financial returns, as quickly as possible, i.e. its doing exactly what its designed to do, i.e. help cause hyper inflation, in order to extract, or rent seek.

our main government parties have become hardwired to think market based approaches are the most efficient way of doing all of this, its clearly obvious now, they are completely wrong, and now they wont or cant pivot, so this problem is set to continue into the 30's, through it, and maybe even into the 40's