Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

That was the plan from the get go.

False - Germany declared war on Britain by invading its treaty ally, Poland. And with the possible exception of the bombing of Dresden, nobody cried "genocide" or "war crimes" when Britain and the US flew nightly air raids bombing the crap out of German cities.

Back on topic, seems that one of Iran's other proxies, the Houthis, have got some new missiles from their puppet masters.

Israel fails to intercept Houthi missile targeting its main airport, showing the limits of US efforts to weaken the group | CNN

But hey, I'm sure the usual suspects will find a way to blame Israel and call them the aggressor, especially if and when they respond.

Israel has bombed four or five of its neighbours in the last year, all the time claiming "self defence". The Lebanon pager attack is reported to have killed 42 people and injured 4000 people, including an estimated 2500 innocent civilians.

But if anyone so much as fires a missile in Israel's direction, they are deemed 'vile, depraved terrorists'.

Well, let's see, Israel and the Syrian Druze community bordering it have been attacked, unprovoked, by Gaza, Lebanon, Yemen and Syria went from being a proxy for Iran/Hezbollah to being run by Sunni Islamists who have been killing the Syrian Druze people.

And with the exception of the last provocation, all of it has been co-ordinated and resourced by Iran. But sure, blame da Joos.

I don't know what "history books" you've been reading but the facts were very clear. Japan was not going to surrender. Full stop. The Allies were faced with a choice between an armistice and a bloody campaign like the planned US Operations Downfall, Olympic and Coronet, which would almost certainly have been mirrored by Soviet operations to start taking Japan from the North.

In fact those behind the Manhattan Project had planned for two bombs not being enough, they feared in the worst case they'd need a bunch more to force a surrender and were already working on a third at the time of surrender.

The Emperor HIMSELF ordered Suzuki's cabinet to sue for peace and told them "You will consider the question of ending the war as soon as possible", and as far back as February the Japanese had been mulling over the idea of approaching Russia to act as a mediator in peace talks. Japan was finished. The firebombing of Tokyo and the impotent response to it had shown the Japanese leadership what the fate of the home islands was. The only thing that remained was how they were to go surrender. Even Churchill stated "It would be a mistake to suppose that the fate of Japan was settled by the atomic bomb. Her defeat was certain before the first bomb fell, and was brought about by overwhelming maritime power."

That "maritime power" had the home islands completely blockaded and, simply put, there was just no need for even Olympic to take place as Japan would have fallen before it even got underway.

Basil Liddell Hart wrote that "Churchill also mentions that at Potsdam, three weeks before the bomb was dropped, he was told privately by Stalin of a message from the Japanese Ambassador in Moscow expressing Japan’s desire for peace — and adds that in passing on this news to President Truman he suggested that the Allies’ demand for ‘unconditional surrender’ might be somewhat modified to ease the way for the Japanese to surrender."

Whether the facts matter to you or not is immaterial. However, Japan was looking for a way out.

In any case, I couldn't care less what you want to believe and you're free to believe what you wish. Your posts on this thread alone are enough to show everyone that you aren't the slightest bit interested in any kind of fact that might go against your narrative.

So, it's ultimately a completely pointless exercise even replying to you.

And this is way off topic into the bargain.

Absolutely shameful what the Israeli government & military are planning to do- this on VE day which had a direct connection to the establishment of the present day state of Israel.

History will not be kind to the citizens of Israel if this goes ahead & karma will also have a say in this.

This has to stop , there is no justification for this collective punishment of the Palestinian people , shameful behaviour & shame on anyone who thinks otherwise.

Here are two esoteric, student uniony, almost rhetorical questions.

If one supports the forced starvation of 2 million people (made up of about 40% children) - are they vilifying themselves, or are others vilifying them?

If one can support this using probably the two most destructive mass casualty events in human history as shining lights, is there any point in debate?

Anyway, happy to debate. What are your thoughts on using famine as a weapon of war @Brendan Bendar? If any country other than Israel was doing this, do you think it would get any support in Ireland?

It is very curious how, when discussing historical points about WW2, you answer questions put to you and try to use facts to back up your positions (well I have no idea if they are facts, I'm not at all educated on WW2 history). But it does look like people raise points, and you attempt to counter them with some substance and logic - you make an effort.

This in itself isn't curious of course, except that it is in stark contrast with your discussion of the current conflict between Israel and Palestine, where you ignore facts, ignore difficult questions, disregard common sense, all with the goal of spreading fake news and a false narrative that makes the country who has killed 96% of people in this conflict (and is currently engaging in starving 2 million people and annexing their territory) as the one who has been wronged. Just an observation.

Your apparent lack of understanding of the definition of Genocide and what it means suggests you should look up the definition on the UN website.

But you should also know that:

1. The ICJ found the South Africa case "plausible"
2. Many other nations enjoined the South African case
3. The ICJ issued provisional measures that Israel were required to implement to prevent genocide
4. Israel ignored the first direction
5. The ICJ issued measures that Israel were required to implement to prevent genocide a second time
6. Israel ignored and continues to ignore the second direction
7. The ICJ also ruled last summer that Israel was illegally occupying Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Israel was ordered to leave all illegally occupied areas and pay reparations to the Palestinians
8. Israel has ignored this finding

Should the ICJ find Israel guilty of Genocide, I can guarantee that every time Israel is mentioned thereafter will be as follows: "Israel (the Genocidal State) something something"

Debate is positive - provided the debaters stick to the facts and not clutch at straws to argue their point.

By the way, I didn't see your reply my questions as regards "the bigger picture" you mentioned in your previous post.

Happy to debate that with you if you care to respond.

Half of those 40,000 were Hamas terrorists (remember them - they killed 1200, kidnapped 250 , raped and burnt people alive etc on Oct 7th ). Most of the other 20,000 were Gazans that Hamas were using as human shields.

If Hamas release all the hostages then Israel will stop the offensive.

That didn't stop the Armenian Genocide from being retroactively called such, and correctly, in my view. The reason Germany got no sympathy for its troubles was that they started it.

I will condemn anyone who set wildfires, but the maps and news articles I've seen show a lot of them being well inside Israel proper.

Ok, so how should Israel respond to this?

Yemen's Houthis announce 'air siege' of Israel following airport missile attack | Euronews

Best not to bother Strazdas with that poster, all morality and common sense goes out the window.

This is a really dark day and I think we can all see what the plan was all along.