Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

I know this was directed at another post (by a poster who is in fact very knowledgeable about the region and the current campaign of Genocide by Israel) but since facts are important, I'd like to correct some of your assertions:

1. I understand that Hamas make their own "rockets". A lot of them fail utterly. Those that don't have no guidance systems and always fall in no man's land. Given that Israel checks all aid entering Gaza, there's no way military hardware gets through (of course, all aid was ceased at the beginning of March).
2. Israel built many of the tunnels in Gaza. But you are correct that building materials destined for civilian works was undoubtedly used for military based projects.
3. The current numbers of known dead is just shy of 53,000. At a 70% ratio of women and children to men, that is approx 16,000 dead men and approximately 37,000 dead women and children. Assuming all women and children are civilians, the majority of those killed are in fact civilians. That is not "relatively few".
4. One study in the Lancet last year put the death toll at 190,000 to include all deaths - those vapourised by 2000lb bombs, those shredded into non recognisable flesh and bone, those dead from disease, starvation and hypothermia. That was last year. Presumably given the worsening situation since then, that number could be a lot higher - quarter of a million would not be a stretch.

So, you believe "Israel has tried to be nice" and you believe Hamas has the means to kill all Israelis.

I find that level of delusion in the face of corroborated facts to be astonishing. And the repeat of such falsehoods is equally disgusting when trying to justify the murders of women and children and the ethnic cleansing of Gaza.

“We are finally going to occupy the Gaza Strip. We will stop being afraid of the word ‘occupation,’” Smotrich told Channel 12 journalist Amit Segal during a conference organised by Israel’s right-wing Besheva newspaper.

“We are finally taking control of all humanitarian aid, so that it does not become supplies for Hamas. We are separating Hamas from the population, cleansing the Strip, returning the hostages — and defeating Hamas,” he said.

The posters defending this (with no sensible logic) will have serious regrets when they are older and wonder why the world has become a much darker place with no rules. You will notice a few have already stopped posting because they realised they were on the wrong side of history and right/wrong. One in particular was adamant over and over and over that Israel has zero plans to take over any of Gaza.

You really have to be the lowest of the low to stand by what Israel is doing to Palestine.

The lowest of the low.

At least now Israel have finally revealed their true intentions. Intentions we all already knew. They are taking the Gaza Strip by brute force. I’m expecting the West Bank will follow at some stage in the future. They have the complete unquestioning backing and I would even argue encouragement of the US so there is nothing to stop them.

The strong take what they want from the weak because they can.

Its disgusting, and a sad and depressing time for humanity.

They used to deny that Israel would ever bomb a hospital, and then started to support bombing hospitals. Remember that, when the idea of Israel brazenly bombing a hospital was shocking instead of completely expected.. I remember the first time it was reported they bombed a refugee camp and it was massive news. Absolutely shocking and of course all the denials. Now it's just another normal place for Israel to bomb every day and people support it.

Gazans will be forced south with bombs. A death march with Israel now taking over all aid and distributing it from centralised locations. How people will be able to get this aid, and march dozens of miles, after such brutality and suffering, I have no idea.

Don't underestimate these people's ability to go lower and accept everything Israel does. They don't see the people as anything close to human. One can only hope that at some point in their lives, when the hatred dies away a bit and they have some time to think, they'll realise they're monsters.

Whilst I agree that the future for Gaza/West Bank looks very bleak, I am hopeful that current legal actions will prevail and result in justice being done and being seen to be done.

Many many months ago, after the initial ICJ hearing into Israel's Genocide, the evidence was substantial. Then came the ICJ judgement last summer that all the Palestinian areas Israel occupied were illegal.

Since then with the total blockade of Gaza, the demolition of Palestinian homes in the West Bank, the executions of 15 medics, impending increase in military activity in Gaza and continuing bombardment, the evidence for Genocide and War Crimes is completely overwhelming.

I simply cannot imagine the ICJ finding Israel anything but guilty of Genocide.

Of course, and it is largely true, many will point out that there is no "punishment" the ICJ can mete out. But the moniker will be a stain on Israel forever. It's noticeable that often, whenever Germany is discussed, conversations lead to the Nazis and the Holocaust - that happened in the 1940s.

That I write this on VE Day is pretty ironic.

"Never again" - in your dreams, Israel.

By every metric, things are significantly worse in Gaza. Over 80-90% of structures are destroyed. Almost the entire population is starving and have been displaced and they are getting bombed in refugee camps. More deaths in a shorter amount of time, and basically all civilian with mostly women and children. Israel has announced they will take over all of Gaza, and unlike Ukraine, which has a military and Western support, Israel will simply bomb everything and forced millions into a concentration camp in the south.

Israel has complete control over aid, electricity, medicine, travel, and internet. There are basically no functioning schools or hospitals left. How much Israel blockades stuff getting into Gaza determines how many people live or die. Russia does not have this control over Ukraine. It doesn't surround Ukraine. It doesn't have control over Ukraine's food and water.

If half the West overtly supported Russia, these young people you have a problem with would be more vocal in their support for Ukraine. People don't have to be vocal about something everyone already agrees with. At the moment, Palestinians are suffering more than anyone on Earth, and Western governments are supporting and arming their oppression, and have been for decades. People feel compelled to voice their opinions about this.

Yes things are bad in Ukraine, but I have no idea what you're trying to signal by claiming they're equally bad and complaining that people care more about Palestine. If I kidnapped you and offered to airdrop you in a random location either in Ukraine or Gaza, you'd beg for anywhere in Ukraine. You'd probably beg to be dropped in the most dangerous part of Eastern Ukraine over the safest place in Gaza. At least you'd escape Ukraine eventually, but you'd be stuck in Gaza forever like the people there. Youtubers are literally going to Eastern Ukraine to check it out.

This is also where Israeli claims of 'What about the things Hamas did to us?' completely fall down. There isn't anything Hamas have ever done or could do which equals or justifies the hell that the IDF are unleashing upon Gaza.

It was standard practice for decades.

"IDF is investigating"? Ha.

The definition of genocide is not proof of genocide. Courts don't issue findings of guilt on technicalities. If what you claim about Israel was true then Keir Starmer would've been guilty of stating willingness to commit genocide when he said in the run-up to last year's general election that he'd be willing to press the nuclear button.

The ICJ ruled against the US in the Nicaragua case in the 1980s and that led to ….. nothing!

So essentially, a "legitimate target" is whatever the IOF says it is.

Sorry if this has already been posted. there's 200 replies since I was last in the thread and I haven't gone through them yet.

The NYT used footage from the incident, phone calls made by someone there along with the israeli report to determine what happened when the ambulances were attacked.

It's pretty much a war crime.

This post is excellent. 100% agree. Even the lurkers should read this post carefully. The IDF and govt have somehow normalised despicable wrongdoings.