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Match Thread: Leinster v Northampton, 03/05/25

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,080 ✭✭✭✭The Iron Giant


    Which they weren't good enough to do. But they thought they were good enough.. twice. And they weren't. They should have taken the 3, guaranteed they'd have more time to win but they thought they were better than that. And they weren't...

    Arrogant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,325 ✭✭✭testtech05


    I don't buy the arrogance argument for the final penalty (speaking as a Connacht fan in case that matters to anyone) but I think the tap and go was a crazy decision. Surely with NH down 2 in the pack you got for the lineout or even a dominant scrum.

    Having said that normally Leinster are very good at those 5m taps but the execution given the circumstances to lose the ball at the 1st ruck was a disaster



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    what a match, well done Northampton

    But wtf is the decision not to kick those pens near the end of the game, lads always kick your points!!

    But it was great entertainment and a great advert for Rugby



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭theVersatile




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 791 ✭✭✭jackal


    Sorry are you under the impression that only tries can win a game in rugby because you keep repeating this point and ignoring that kicking those two 3 pointers, had they gone over, would also have won the game in regular time, or given a shot at extra time. We were never even, let alone ahead in that game. Take the 3 points



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Leinster have been bitten in the past by taking the points and not being aggressive.

    They seem to be damned if they do, damned if they dont



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 9,478 ✭✭✭fitz


    Northampton got away with an identical one in the second half. I started to raise my voice at the TV, then piped down...

    We shot ourselves in the face repeatedly in the first half, should have drawn up the score in the last 5 minutes and gone again, but made some poor decisions. Doris being off the pitch cost us dearly, but that's a real disappointment in terms of the other senior players leadership and decision making under pressure. We threw that game away, mainly in the first half, imo. Northampton had their homework done and exposed the Neinaber system's vulnerability.

    I will say, I found it infuriating how much blatant infringement NH got away with at the breakdown. I'm not talking about the marginal sh*thousery that we were getting away with too, but the Richie McCaw invisibility cloak level stuff that the ref just didn't give a toss about. Pollack was off his feet or reaching around the side of most rucks he was in. He should have been whistled off the park, imo. The one a few minutes before the end where he's on his knees is sheer incompetence from the ref. And I honestly don't know how he can give a penalty against a player that prevents JVDF reaching out a couple of inches to ground the ball, but not give a penalty try, which would have won us the game. So, while we absolutely should have won that game under our own steam before that point, honestly think the ref was incredibly weak, particularly in those last few minutes. The TMO even suggested it could be a penalty try and the ref said that it wasn't cause JVDF was short. Absolute nonsense.

    This is a very tough one to take, tbh. Coaching staff has to be looked at now, imo. NH made sh*t of the thing Neinaber's supposed to be bringing to the table, and far too easily, imo. I have never thought he was the right for Leinster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    It wasnt just Doris - Ryan didn't play and the likes of Sheehan, Furlong, Henshaw. That's a solid part of their leadership team and experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,167 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    Does a try win Leinster the game or not?

    They scored a try having gone for it. They went again.

    Honestly lads the hurdles you're all jumping to try and call a team trying to win a game of rugby 'arrogant' is astounding.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,600 ✭✭✭techdiver


    Nienaber. The biggest buffer in world rugby has been proven. He has taken the most potent attacking team on the planet and completely nullified them in some search of the south africa formulae.

    This is not just revision. It's a patten since he's taken over.

    But also. This bunch of players have proven themselves not worthy of any Jersey. Not one leader amongst them. It might sound harsh but it's true!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,080 ✭✭✭✭The Iron Giant


    They should have taken the 3 and secured extra minutes to get the winning points. They'd have gotten the ball back and had time to try to win it.

    The delusion that you have that going for three points twice and ultimately losing the game was a good idea because "ah, sure they went for it" is astounding. When they fudged the first attempt and had another penalty with sixty seconds on the clock they should have had the wherewithall to take their points. They didn't, because they overestimated their ability to score a try.

    That is literally arrogance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,167 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    You are saying all of this while ignoring the fact they scored a try from this type of play in the game only minutes before.

    When you have already managed it, of course you're going to back yourself to be able to do it again.

    It's not arrogance to try to win a game of rugby.

    Like I said, I'd have taken 3. Especially the first one. However, when they have scored a try from a 5m pick many teams will fancy their chances of being able to do it again. It's not arrogance to believe you can repeat what you did only a few minutes ago in an effort to win a rugby match.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,080 ✭✭✭✭The Iron Giant


    Right. So you're saying that going for it makes sense because they scored a try before. Thats fair.

    So... by the EXACT same logic, when they messed up their first penalty and couldn't score a try, they should have taken the points the second time given that they failed to score a try "only minutes before".

    They had a gift of an opportunity in the 79th minute to tie the game and force extra time and they fücked it by thinking they could score a try for it when they literally couldn't do it only minutes before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    I agree that they should have taken the first kick, I would have probably been conservative and taken the points, but the second one was far tougher one and deciding to pass on it to me is the wiser option.

    He misses that kick and the game is basically done and everyone has your hindsight glasses on and saying what a stupid risk it was given the location and that you're at best getting a draw. I'd probably have gone for lineout rather than a tap but who knows how that would pan out.

    I disagree that either decision to pass on the kick is arrogance though - it might be a lot of things but it isnt arrogant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,599 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Doris's leadership was very good while he was on the field. I think there was something missing when he had to go off. He was turning ball over and taking big carries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,599 ✭✭✭joseywhales




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,070 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Doris was sensational today, especially in the 2nd half. He literally turned the game on its head by himself



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 579 ✭✭✭exiledawaynothere


    are you sure? Players are off their feet scoring all the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭almostover


    Deegan was on the ground for quite some time before he passed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,521 ✭✭✭mr_edge_to_you


    More frustrated this morning than I was last night.

    At half time, Leinster were 12 points behind. They'd manage to get to within 3 points in the last 5 mins. That's a decent enough comeback but Jesus H Christ, you take the 3 points. You have some certainty so level it up, regroup and go again. I don't know that NH have another 20 mins in them.....Leinster with arguably the best player in the world who hasn't even played a full half too.

    Having started him on the bench I will never understand how Barratt wasn't on at half time either.

    Then you have players and management coming out saying there's still a URC to play for but at the same time we will rest players and rotate each week. It's the business end of the season, you just have to go strong.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Ultimately, a lack of leadership in the white heat of battle again cost Leinster. Not taking shots at goal in the final minutes was criminal.

    I'd agree entirely with that, and to be fair Leinster were unlucky to be without Ryan from the start and Doris for the last 20 minutes.

    I do wonder if it's something that should be considered with their NIQ recruitment tho. Barrett is definitely in that bracket, but he didn't start. For next season, neither Snyman nor Ioane strike me as the kind of leader type. I honestly think Leinster may have been better off signing a less glamourous, but nuts-and-bolts player who offers that leadership around the park.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,074 ✭✭✭typhoony


    I thought that was a strange call as well, Boyle has been playing well all season. Also tight head is a real issue going forward, Furlong did OK yesterday but again Slimani might have been a better choice to start. And don't get me started in the Barrett non selection



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,521 ✭✭✭mr_edge_to_you


    James Ryan has been outstanding all season and I think he was missed yesterday.

    In saying that I thought McCarthy had a more mature game by his standards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭Cork29


    You would have to feel sorry for Jordie Barrett, did he not know Leinster are full of softies?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 731 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    Pretty gutted. NH deserved the win. Leinster are an incredibly stupid team when you get to the pointy end of the season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    “There’s still a URC to play for”

    Basically saying “let’s learn nothing from this loss just like the last 6 losses and repeat the same mistakes next season…”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    how many world cups has he bluffed his way to winning?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    Exactly, when you look at all the previous losses the clear common denominator is Leo Cullen.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,274 Mod ✭✭✭✭GoldFour4


    It was a European Cup semi final with 5 mins left. You take the 3 points.

    If it’s a round game in the URC and the worst case scenario is losing bonus points then sure - go for it and try and win the game. This was a different stage though.

    I don’t think it was an arrogant decision - it was a stupid decision. The arrogant/killer mindset would have been “let’s kick the three - we’re gonna win the restart and win this before extra time”.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 352 ✭✭VayNiice




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