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Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Read OP for mod warnings before posting*

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,859 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That's pathetic. We keep getting told that there's some kind of right wing revolution afoot but they can't even win a single seat, much less have a proper protest with more than a handful of people.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,649 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Today’s march in Letterkenny will, undoubtedly, be addressed by another headbanger in the form of McConnell. He received 1565 votes in the general election. Based on some of the estimates we have seen for crowd numbers I’m surprised it wasn’t claimed that he topped the poll.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭prunudo


    The tide is turning, whether the naysayers want to believe it or not doesn't concern me. The galling part is the name calling by media and politicans over the last few years of people who were saying the things the same politicans are saying now. Even the eternal flip floppers, SF, are sensing the mood change.

    Good luck to everyone attending the march in Letterkenny today. Stand proud and speak up for your country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,674 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    I've already addressed both of those things.

    You're massaging numbers to fit your narrative.

    The fact is that increasing numbers of people are being significantly impacted by immigration to take to the streets in protest, and you don't have to be a racist to do so.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    At a quick glance, I noticed a few things they seem to do differently eg. not every applicant gets a weekly cash payment, none get access to the national health scheme, classes and light work at the centre are required, after a certain time there’s paid internships and rent is due to the centre. Applicants have to sign some type of contract about rules with the centre they’re assigned to, (maybe we have something similar, idk).
    One major difference I noticed is that the assigned accommodation - reception, processing and return centres - are run by the Danish prison & probation service and the Red Cross. We spend billions on private operators.

    https://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-GB/You-are-waiting-for-an-answer/Asylum/Conditions-for-asylum-seekers




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Do you believe the Georgians who topped our list in big numbers were genuine? What's happening in Georgia that caused the mass exodus?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    According to the Georgian ambassador back in early 2024, they want to work and he pointed out that pay is higher here and there’s a lot of work available eg in the construction sector.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0129/1429113-immigration-analysis/#:~:text=So%2C%20why%20have%20they%20been,sets%2C%20like%20the%20construction%20sector.


    So they arrived here for purely economic reasons and claimed asylum to bypass the legal work visa system. Some people still don’t believe that happens.

    Georgia is on the list of safe countries so presumably that’s the reason for the deportations now but the state is out-of-pocket due to funding accommodation, food, healthcare, education, travel, etc etc for chancers. But some people think we’re such a wealthy country and we can afford it 😏

    We issue work visas so why don’t people apply that way? Could it be because a work visa doesn’t come with all the freebies?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I think the ones who were granted refugee status probably were. I’d say the Russian invasion may something to do with it.

    Again I’m shocked at the ignorance here.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing_of_Georgians_in_South_Ossetia

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,402 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Having an EU Single Market with limitations would mean there no actual single market. An EU with hard borders put up against each other's citizens would render the whole project pointless.

    We ourselves were one of the chief beneficiaries of this in that the Irish border was effectively removed from the island in 1993.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    This war that ended in 2008?

    https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War#:~:text=Russian%20military%20troops%20entered%20the,on%20Saturday%20August%2016th%2C%202008.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,294 ✭✭✭enricoh


    A year or two ago the refugees welcome brigade would be laughing at the paltry turnout at these protests, they ain't laughing now, now they're desperately trying to focus on the one eejit with a Putin poster or a fella in a Liverpool top



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,294 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Nothing to see here, just a wee bit of the aul radicalizing of the congregation.

    it'll all be grand, won't it - course it will!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,001 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    This is too convoluted E.

    Ether you trust statistics or you believe in smoke and mirrors. Or the political wheeze of a politician who flipflops whenever it suits him .( Like his comments about housing before the election for example ?)

    I know what I believe .statistics



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Good turnout in Letterkenny, great to see.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Yes. With about 30,000 people forced to move out of their homes and part of Georgia still occupied by Russia.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Probably were? So even you're not sure. The Georgian embassador was embarrassed by the situation and he's on the Georgian side of the former conflict. Key word being former. Nearest safe point for anyone suffering in south Ossetia? It's Georgia. They can claim asylum in Tbilisi.

    The guys coming were economic hence why an extremely high number were refused in places like France while being accepted here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Why didn’t the Georgian Ambassador mention that then, instead he said they shouldn’t claim asylum because they were here to work. Seems odd to me that the country’s own ambassador wouldn’t know what the situation in his own country was in 2024 - 16 years after that invasion happened.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I think the lack of certainty is the correct response. How the **** would I know? Given that 80% of people are being rejected, it doesn’t sound easy to get accepted.


    You like to put half truths and rumours together and state them as undeniable fact. It’s ridiculous. Open your mind a bit please.

    Nothing, absolutely nothing says they have to claim asylum in the closest safe country. The ambassador you’re talking about was installed by a pro Russian government that was installed after the invasion.

    The entire situation is a quagmire. It’s not as black and white as you seem to think. Go an do something reading on the subject and you’ll understand why SOME refugees from Georgia are genuine. Most are not.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Since the 2008 the unofficial priority for all Georgian diplomats is “please don’t upset Russia”.

    This is no secret.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Are the government Pro russian or just don't want to give Russia an excuse to invade again? Maybe you should open your mind a little. You can't defend what happened here and the Georgian ambassador certainly didn't.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    LETTERKENNY STAND UP!

    What a turn out. The movement has gained serious momentum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Well, all the experts and Ngos are saying that In the future there may well be climate refugees,and Ireland with its benign climate will be be most likely top of the list to relocate to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Given that parts of the country are already experiencing hose pipe bans, and our can clearly not keep up with the current levels if immigration. Maybe it is the Irish who should be emigrating and becoming climate refugees.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭prunudo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,001 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Both should be compared to total population because with any March or protest you are going to get people coming from surrounding areas and often further afield to attend.

    There have been groups attending some of these more local protests from as far afield as UK and NI so that has to be accounted for as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,001 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    This.

    If we had those centres built and running .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,309 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I am for the following types of immigration:

    (1) Irish returning home

    (2) EU immigrants (* subject to finding job, not being dependent on welfare)

    (3) limited, controlled student visas for non-EU students

    (4) limited, controlled work visas for non-EU workers in specific sectors (health and social care = yes, food delivery = no)

    (5) the amount of 1,000 refugees via the IRRP each year

    I am against the following immigration:

    (1) non-genuine AS. The head of GNIB, Aidan Minnock, has confirmed what we all knew already, that the AS are in fact economic migrants. This has been confirmed by two Ministers.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/1230/1488432-migrant-gnib/

    My question is as folllows.

    Given that I am for five types of immigration, and against just one type, would the media describe me as "anti-immigration"?

    Clearly, I am pro-immigration, yet I feel that I would be described as anti-immigration.

    Indeed, I would love to see the 100,000 Irish in Australia to return here, to reduce the heartbreak that parents feel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,001 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    I would consider you somewhere in the middle, maybe slightly to the right of this debate but I am only one person with my own views.

    I don't disagree with much of your opinion there ( think we noted that before on another thread !) and would be similarly looking for more control, faster processing and step up deportations of those refused .Think this may finally be happening now.

    What I would think is that we need to accept that we need centres for these people to live in while they are being processed but not detention centres and if people abhor the use of private facilities and large amounts being paid into private hands by the government that is the way to go as per centres in Denmark.

    This was talked about 2 years ago but still caught up.in various rows over "where ,not here ? "

    As to Australia and the 100k Irish ...they will come home anyway , many of them but more will go out ..it's a continuous process . And some of those Irish born are well settled out there as Irish have done for generations and so will stay.

    I disagree with including Irish people who emigrate to work and live elsewhere as part of this discussion because for many it's a choice , work and lifestyle and not necessity

    Many Irish people emigrated before housing was an issue citing social and work conditions.

    Some won't return until housing is more available and cheaper but even if it was , some will stay as they have family settled over there . That's as it always was and is now.

    I think housing is the major problem of this generation but do I think it's all the blame on the refugees / asylum seekers ? ..no .

    It's consistent lack of planning and building by governments who have relied on private developers to build as if they.. the developers ! ..have our best interests at heart .

    This has been going on since FF and Haughey in the 1980s and it's just started to kick us in the teeth in the last 10 years.

    Lack of social and affordable housing , lack of infrastructure , water , drainage , poor planning of towns and cities ..these are all down to poor governance and nothing else.

    To blame refugees for this plays directly into the hands of not just those on the far right but also those who have been in government and looking after themselves and their own for the last 40 years .



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 56,542 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    FYI... You can't get a work visa to work in construction in Ireland… not saying what the Georgians are supposedly doing is right because obviously, they shouldn't be doing that, but it seems this is why they're doing it that way... Childcare is another sector they're wanting to work in, which also has shortages especially in pre-school.

    Perhaps the government should look at the work visa system as it seems mad that we have a housing crisis and people who want to work in that sector have to claim asylum as the only way of being allowed to work here. Most (rational) people have no issues with folks who genuinely want to come and work here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    The elephant in the room.

    Looks like this economist agrees. We need to dramatically slow down immigration. We also need to slow emigration which means we'd need to curb immigration even further.

    Like I said no point creating another 100k jobs whether skilled or low income if it means a large proportion are taken up my immigrants. The level of job creation should be looking to replace jobs that leave.

    We are in an absolute crisis driven my inward migration TEN TIMES the EU average.



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