Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

While the US is a large part of NATO, it is not NATO in and of itself. What NATO does and what its individual members do are two different things. The US cannot force NATO countries into a war that is not in line with the alliance's articles.

People may not believe that NATO is solely a defensive organization, which is why they "side" with Russia, and I can understand their skepticism. However, my counter to that would be to judge each organization on its actions rather than words. NATO has never invaded a country (there have been military operations, but usually for peacekeeping or in response to specific events), while Russia has invaded and/or annexed multiple regions.

EDIT: For further clarification, even article 5 does not mean that a member is forced to invade another country. All it states is that the state must aid the aggressed member in some form but not necessarily militarily.

is this minerals deal going to be any good for Ukraine?

1st, off, when I hear the name Mearsheimer or rand mentioned, thats it for me. Theres a few other unmentionables around too, a McGregor, Tucker Carlson etc. As for Ukrainian corruption, any state where Putin was the father and Russia the mother, whan else can you expect except Corruption? Sure Ukraine has a corruption problem, but Zelensky is tackling it. Same as all the other ex-USSR states had to do. That self-same corruption was the very reason why so many states sought independence, and Chechny / Georgia as well. Having lived a Nr of years in Russia, inc. Chechnya and also in Syria, I know damned well what Russki Mir is all about,having up close and personal experience of it. And in straight out black and white, and to hell with the "nuances", Its these self same "Nuances" that Putin has used to drive wedges into EU Governments to create confusion.He's good at that. Straight up, clear and simple, Putin is a murderous psychopath, and has to be stopped dead in his tracks. and the sooner the better, for the good of everyone, including the Russians. And F**K the Nuances.

Of course, Ukraine are not getting a free pass into the EU, the rules will be followed, no exceptions. But they will get EU membership, no matter how long it takes…they belong in the EU, and its a mutual need. With the Russian bear on the prowl,( or its cubs) the EU needs a strong military bulwark between it and Russia. Ukraine, Poland etc fit the bill admirably. Theres a lot of "Oh, but Ukraine is corrupt" fanboys around, but no comeback when they are asked when is Russia going to start anti-corruption measures like President Zelensky has implemented?

And very important, it will keep Putin from attacking anything Trump considers "his". so any area currently under Ukrainian control,containing mineral or any other kind of wealth, should be safe from Russian predations.

Some day Russians will learn how to live civilized and transform from orcs into elves

Theres a few other unmentionables around too,

There's nothing in the thread charter forbidding talk of Mearsheimer.

You've outlined your position very very strongly and I have to wonder, if you are able bodied, what is holding you back from fighting Russia on the Frontline when you believe so strongly in war.

I don't believe in Hamas and I am in favour of a negotiated settlement in Gaza.

I would imagine I wouldn't be allowed in Gaza to fight against Israel and having spoken to a Gaza friend recently, it sounds more like a concentration camp than a warzone. The only thing stopping people leaving Ukraine is Zelensky whereas in Gaza there is almost no escape possible. Spoke same friend who escaped Gaza recently and he said that the Israeli's should kill them all or let them to leave as what they are doing is hell (akin to torture). Very very different from Ukraine.

I participate in marches and BDS. I do not advocate for arming Hamas with the latest western technology although sometimes I feel it might not be a bad idea.

I understand a lot of Ukrainian supporters are also pro Israel in line with USA policy but in that situation I am very very strongly against the Israeli genocide but even so do not resort to calling Israeli's human animals as they refer to the Palestinians or orcs as the pro Ukrainian people refer to Russians. I remind myself of the three nice Israeli's I met although still remember the twenty or so asshole Israeli's I met too.

In both wars I'm pro peace and would love to see Palestinians and Israeli's reconcile but it is very far from that currently. I think the first step is for NATO's leader to stop arming and funding Israel and then Israel would have to face consequences.

Hope that clarifies my position.

I don't believe in Hamas and I am in favour of a negotiated settlement in Gaza.

I never mentioned Hamas.

I would imagine I wouldn't be allowed in Gaza to fight against Israel and having spoken to a Gaza native recently, it sounds more like a concentration camp than a warzone. The only thing stopping people leaving Ukraine is Zelensky whereas in Gaza there is almost no escape possible. Spoke with a friend who escaped Gaza recently and he said that the Israeli's should kill them all or let them to leave as what they are doing is hell (akin to torture). Very very different from Ukraine.

I understand a lot of Ukrainian supporters are also pro Israel but in that situation I am very very strongly against the Israeli genocide but even so do not resort to calling Israeli's human animals as they refer to the Palestinians or orcs as the pro Ukrainian people refer to Russians.

Fluffy white noise.

In both wars I'm pro peace 

Then you should agree that the simplest way to peace is Russia simply going home or a ceasefire and negotiation. Ukraine have agreed to both of these scenarios. Russia has rejected both. So what's the solution?

Hope that clarifies my position.

Oh I'm well aware of your position. It's just extremely selective and hypocritical.

I never mentioned Hamas.

I suggested the previous poster fight for Ukraine. You asked why I didn't fight against Israel (presumably for Hamas?). I contrasted my opinion against that of the poster who said **** nuance.

US senate majority backs 500% Russian energy tariffs to pressure Kremlin into peace deal - Euromaidan Press

Here's an interesting move that could actually bring Russia to it's knees.

From my understanding the loophole that's used for Russia to sell its oil is that it's sold on to India who then refine it and sell it on to western nations.

If this occurs it would effectively place an embargo on refined petroleum product made with Russian crude in India. Then Russian oil basically becomes poison. If it weren't already.

Interesting times if it comes to pass.

and a.sl I think that the FIRST STEP - re the Special Mission would be for China, NK, IRAN stop supplying arnaments/ assistance to Russia along with economic assistance supplied by India et al.!!!!!

The poster with extreme vitriol who said there was no **** nuance was so extreme that I suggested he join the Ukrainian army or at least that was my intimation by saying 'the frontline' given his views are so strong and his belief so high.

The victims are the stupid Russians and Ukrainian's that have joined or been forced to join their armies, the civilians on both sides that have died and the huge toll on the economies and citizens of all the participants.

You were suggesting they were pro war for supporting a victim defend themselves.

The victim ... Maybe you mean the homeless in the USA that could have been housed if billions had been spent on them instead, those burnt alive in the Odessa massacre or the Ukrainian civilians killed in the recent award ceremony. There's lots of victims in this war....

Now you can address your peace inconsistency

I don't know what you mean by my peace inconsistency.

Mod Edit: Warned for uncivil posting

The victims are the stupid Russians and Ukrainian's that have joined or been forced to join their armies, the civilians on both sides that have died and the huge toll on the economies and citizens of all the participants.

The victims are the stupid Palestinians who etc etc……

Maybe you mean the homeless in the USA that could have been housed if billions had been spent on them instead, those burnt alive in the Odessa massacre or the Ukrainian civilians killed in the recent award ceremony. There's lots of victims in this war....

Pure unadulterated whataboutism. I mean the victim of this war. Those who were attacked. Ukraine did not invade Russia. Ukraine were not going to invade Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine. They are by dictionary definition the victim. Ukraine are not bombing Russian civilian playgrounds and hospitals.

You seem to have trouble understanding extremely simple concepts. I'd try to get that straight before moving on to any nuance.

I don't know what you mean by my peace inconsistency.

You claim you want peace to this war. Yet you never denigrate the ones perpetrating the war. Russia could go home to end the war. They have refused and continue forward. Russia could have agreed to the unconditional ceasefire and negotiation that Ukraine agreed to 7 weeks ago. They did not and they continue to bomb civilians.

You are apoplectic every time Israel rejects peace and bombs civilians. But never Russia.

Your position and by extension ,you ,are hypocritical. That's your peace inconsistency.