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Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,337 ✭✭✭Boscoirl


    it’s been a strange month. Even though we lost the last 3 games. I feel we lost to ourselves.

    The fundamental break down of our lineout over those games cost us imo. It wasn’t that the opposing team dismantled it. It’s just not there.

    Saying that I think LAR beat themselves also.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,227 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Well Codling will be back for the last two games, so hopefully he can rectify the lineout issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,897 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The way I see it, if Stormers (6th/45pts) Scarlets (7th/43pts) and Benetton (8th/41pts) all win they will stay ahead of us (9th/41pts) even if we win and assuming no bonus points. But with our last game against Benetton we can be assured leapfrogging them into 7th or 8th by beating them and Ulster

    If we lose we get overtaken by Ulster in 2 weeks and potentially Ospreys who play Sharks and Edinburgh who play Connacht

    For Ulster they need to beat us and Edinburgh in the last game but I think they also need other games to go their way to be assured of top 8



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,897 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I think it goes to show you how much a week of lineout training can change the dynamic



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,387 ✭✭✭budhabob




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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,227 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    He's dual jobbing for the season. He'll come back to Munster now that the W6N is over (he was apparently in contact with the Munster coaching staff during the tournament) and then head to the world cup with the women's team after the URC season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,387 ✭✭✭budhabob


    Ah ok, I wasn't sure he was to return post the 6 nations. Anything has to be an improvement on current performance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 26,551 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I haven't seen the game but that was another awful result for us this season.

    I said it mid way through the season when Munster beat Ulster in Ravenhill that it was two poor provincial teams playing that night and that I hoped the IRFU would sit up and look at it and recognise the mess they have allowed Irish rugby to become. This weekend was further proof on how low the 3 provinces have sunk, this weekend we had all 4 provinces losing and the Irish women losing too, it must be a record.

    Hopefully, the money the IRFU are putting aside for player pathways will make a difference but it's too late now for a generation of players. I'll say it again, Nucifora has set Irish rugby back and hopefully he hasn't inflicted a fatal wound to it, it's shocking that there might only be one Irish province playing Champions Cup next season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 26,551 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Leinster don't really invest in the schools, it's private investment that has them where they are. I agree we need to bring our underage development up to a similar level as Leinster's best schools but Munster simply couldn't afford to invest in schools rugby, no province could. There might be an argument to target some schools across the province but I'd like to see investment in underage structures in clubs too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,897 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    There might be an argument to target some schools across the province

    Remember that the majority of schools are publicly funded so if you target some specific schools you'll get backlash from the ones that weren't targeted

    But also we have 15 senior rugby clubs and 39 junior clubs in the province. Surely pouring money and resources into those clubs would give a better return on investment than trying to prop up what is likely a few hundred publicly funded schools?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 26,551 ✭✭✭✭phog


    You quoted one piece and then go on to say "prop up what is likely a few hundred publicly funded schools" Why like?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,856 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Comments like this would make you despair. We really can't think of a solution to getting backlash from a few schools? Nothing should happen because a few principals might get the hump? People have explained to you in painful detail the benefits of schools rugby over club rugby in consistent elite player development but it just goes in one ear and out the other. What's worrying is I think this attitude is pervasive at the top. Perfect is always the enemy of good and there is a default to inaction. Add in a constant harkening back to a mythical era where a bunch of AIL guys took on Europe and you have a regressive "make Munster great again" mythos that permeates through large sections of the organisation and fan base.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,897 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Schools rugby, as a development path, has worked in Leinster because their schools are mostly private fee paying and therefore they have the money and resources to create the most competitive players.

    Prioritising schools in Munster for development of our youth players simply hasn't worked, the evidence of this has been clear for a number of seasons now.

    When we had strong AIL clubs we had a structure that did work, we were competing for trophies and the odd time we would win one. That wasn't a "mythical era" that was the 00's. I can only assume you were too young to remember that era?

    If you prefer to ignore the facts and despair at the truth that's your decision



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,856 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    It's mythical in that the actual facts are that the majority of the team who won the European Cup came through the senior cup schools system. The AIL involvement is no different to what it is today, in that it's a development bridge between schools and provincial rugby. The big difference is that the gap between AIL and provincial rugby has grown, primarily through the advent of professionalism and how that evolved and developed the provincial game over time. The media sold a massive hype of private school city boys from Leinster vs the rough and tumble country AIL lads from Munster and people ate it up. The reality is that Munster were and are equally reliant on the schools system primarily from the two major cities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    Why is it Nuciforas fault?

    Surely there is a large percentage, majority in fact, lies with provinces (mis)management at local level?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,025 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Backing schools alone is doomed to failure. It has to be schools and clubs funded together. For as good as it was this weekend woth nenagh promoted to 1A of AIL and thomond promoted to AIL. Far too many munster clubs were in bottom half of their divisions of AIl.

    FuFunding clubs better and supporting them more and you can put more resources into the clubs select sides that compete in schools cups even adding a second or third of those so you dont then have a need to get more schools up to schools cup level. If schools can make it on their own. Great. But that regional set up allows more of stronger players play the top schools in good competitive games being coached and assessed by munster coaches and atill able to play under 16/18 for their club.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,897 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    As it currently stands schools get priority over their players, that, to me, is backing the schools while shafting the clubs.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,025 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    But it affects only some clubs. And for munster it should be getting the moat out of the available players. If it means its schools jn some areas and youths rugby in others then fine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,897 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Yeah I can get behind a blend of school and club time being better all around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,438 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    I see East and West Terrace tickets are back available for Musgrave Park match. Dunno what's going on with ticket release



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    Stephen Archer has announced his retirement at the end of the season



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 134 ✭✭Ekano




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,387 ✭✭✭budhabob


    I really admire the chap, he had a tough early career, but has improved each year and peaked towards the end of a 16 year career. Remarkable, but also a result of Munsters failure to produce in that position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭Pepp1989


    Archer had a superb career. Fair play to him.

    Munster surely have to find a tighthead now? Ryan is 36/37. Jager can't put a run of games together. Roman hasn't played in 2 years and foxe doesn't seem ready.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,296 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Archer's form in the run-in to the URC win was something else, from going 80 minutes - twice - in SA prior to the knock-outs to starting all 3 knock-out games. A much maligned guy, who significantly improved his handling late in his career, I was as delighted for Archer on URC win as I was for guys like POM, Earls and Murray.

    The talk seems to be that Salanoa is nearing fitness, and if he can stay fit, I think we've potentially got an impactful player on our hands, but it remains a massive if….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3


    they've had over a decade to develop a homegrown tighthead.. the pathway has failed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,296 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Which is why the change to the Central Contract model to fund the pathways was 1) absolutely required and 2) a big positive change from the IRFU.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,346 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    What’s our best available team and bench for next week? Something like:

    Milne, D Barron, Archer
    Beirne, Kleyn
    O’Mahony, Coombes, Hodnett
    Murray, Crowley
    Abrahams, Nankivell, Farrell, Nash
    Haley.

    Bench: L Barron, J Wycherley, Ryan, Ahern, Quinn, Casey, Butler, O’Brien.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,296 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Personally, I’d have Casey starting all day, think he’s integral to most positive things we do with the ball.

    There could be an argument for moving Takkies back to FB too; I think Haley started the season very well, but he’s disimproved since then and isn’t in good form.

    Niall Scannell has always been a good nuts and bolts player, but with the lineout misfiring as much as it has been, there’s nearly less of an argument for him, so I’d probably go exactly as you have there too.

    Milne was a big positive last day. Crowley will hopefully benefit from the off week. Quinn looks really deserving of his bench spot.

    POM’s last game in Thomond. Hope he has a stormer.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,346 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    I thought Haley was good the last day, took his try well.
    O’Brien might deserve a start too, maybe at 12.



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