Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123390753#Comment_123390753

This isnt true, look at the teams who won the European Cups. The vast majority of players came through the senior cup pathway and had extremely limited time in the AIL

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123390785#Comment_123390785

Doesnt fit the narrative of the Munster team being non private schools lads.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123390774#Comment_123390774

he must cringe when he sees how Munster play compared to the Chiefs

The Chiefs were in a pretty abysmal state when he came aboard. They had been on a slide since the Rennie years, but were catastrophic under Gatland before McMillan joined. I would say the turnaround there bodes extremely well for Munster.

letsbefair

Maybe a stupid question but why don't the Munster branch copy the Leinster schools in the many fine schools they have in Cork and Limerick and West Cork. They need to bring their schools up to the same level of excellence ? Seems like a good starting point.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123390785#Comment_123390785

Senior Cup to AIL to Munster. Do you consider someone like Ronan O'Gara AIL or Senior Cup? His actual pathway was Con to Pres to UCC to Con to Munster. He left school in 1995 so his development then was in club rugby - a far better development path than what the move to the academy structure has given Munster.

This is from the Limerick Leader re the 1999 AIL final between Con and Garryowen:

"Cork Con sported Anthony Horgan, John Kelly, Ronan O'Gara, Brian O'Meara and Frankie Sheehan in their side, while Garryowen lined out with Dominic Crotty, Killian Keane, Jeremy Staunton, Tom Tierney and David Wallace."

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123390753#Comment_123390753

That isnt really true though. The AIL evolved and Munster didnt. Shannon and Garryowen have dropped down due to them dropping the ball and not being good enough. They also are not getting players from nearby clubs as much as they did when they were winning league titles. The last limerick club to win an ail was shannon in 2009. Nenagh were only senior 4 years. Bruff 5 years at that stage. Clonmel have went senior in that time as well. All these are factors in limerick clubs not being as strong as they were.

Nenagh are in a playoff today for a 1A spot which should counter some of the 2 limerick clubs dropping a division.

The Limerick schools have rarely been competitive with the cork schools/rockwell/leinster schools. And as pro game evolved they struggled compared to many od these.

The academies dont work in isolation. They work w9th clubs

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123390843#Comment_123390843

Leinster Rugby had very little to do with the state of the schools in Leinster.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123390843#Comment_123390843

Because the monwy isnt there. Pres and christians are fine. In terms of what theyre doing and theyre fee paying schools and most like the leinster schools but elsewhere its not possible. Munster cant and wont ever be able to do what the leinster schools have done. They have to do things differently. And leinster have assisted the schools but the prime driver has been the schools themselves with funds that cant be replicated in same fashion elsewhwre

letsbefair

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123390887#Comment_123390887

If money is the problem maybe they could start with 2 schools and build up over time. There needs to be a plan. Limerick hurling found a benefactor or is there any large Munster based companies who would sponsor or adopt a plan for their local school. My point there is a template for developing school players to a high level, the problem is money and implementation.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123390902#Comment_123390902

Money and implementation are not the problem.

You cannot reproduce the history of the leinster sct in the short or even medium term.

salmocab

if Munster suddenly started pumping money into 2 or 3 schools people would rightfully be furious with them. That’s not a model they could go with.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123390926#Comment_123390926

Money and implementation are clearly part of any solution, Syd.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123390902#Comment_123390902

Because munster cant be seen to focus on two schools. Certainly cant put extensive resources into 2 schools at expense of others. Leinster top rugby schools are fee paying with extensive support from parents past pupils in a fashion that cant be replicated. Because leinster have the schools cup running so well doesnt mean munster can or should be trying to replicate that. Munster have to look at doing things differently

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123391028#Comment_123391028

You might have a better idea on this than most, LO, but is there a general feeling that the centres of excellence will make a difference?

sliabh 1956

"The Chiefs were in a pretty abysmal state when he came aboard. They had been on a slide since the Rennie years, but were catastrophic under Gatland before McMillan joined. I would say the turnaround there bodes extremely well for Munster." Well Podge for all our sakes I hope you are proven right

Jump_In_Jack

Disappointing result last night but was always going to be a tough battle. The yellow card and penalty try from it was very harsh I thought, but then I thought cancelling their first try was harsh too so it probably evened it out.

I thought we needed to control the territory a bit better, kicking to touch behind them and pressurise their lineout.

They seemed to do that to us and got the rewards.

Makes it clear now anyway, anything less than a win against Ulster will put us in serious trouble.

letsbefair

It seems very difficult, there are many obstacles to progress but to make things better they need to be crossed one by one, there seems to be so many reasons why we can't but there is pretty strong schools population to work on incrementally over the next say 5 years. The glass is half full

niallm77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123391063#Comment_123391063

Technically, looking at it JoD did initiate contact with belcher from an offside position, contact was minimal but the decision was right.

The first try was rightly cancelled as the last pass was clearly forward. Not even debatable IMO.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123390843#Comment_123390843

It works in Leinster because the rugby schools are mainly private, fee paying and as a result they're not short a few quid

In munster most schools are public, which means the money is a lot less. And any money they do get to develop rugby facilities has to go through 3 or 4 slow moving committees to get approved

I think if Munster want to revive the underage level and therefore everything that it feeds into they need to do it at the clubs, not the schools, level. It will take a long time but it will pay off

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123391032#Comment_123391032

Hopefully. But they only eill improve thigs if combined with other changes that will help players in clubs, smaller schools get better trainjng in their clubs as well.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123390707#Comment_123390707

The IRFU have not prioritised one province in terms of CC

They prioritised one province for game time over the years, which gave those players valuable exposure at international level, this in turn made giving them central contracts the smart thing to do, but it all stems from giving them the green jersey ahead of players from other provinces

Most recent example would be Prendergast who started 4 of our 5 6N games, even though he was brutal it's a level of exposure that will make him a lot better in years to come. Which in turn will put him up the pecking order for central contracts which will make leinster stronger and richer etc etc

niallm77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123391153#Comment_123391153

That's tin foil hat stuff. Which players in the last 7 or 8 years have been excluded unjustly?

Lowe, Porter, Sheehan, Furlong, Ryan, McCarthy, Doris, VDF, Henshaw, Ringrose and Keenan are the players on CC I think. Like who on that list has been given a CC ahead of someone who should have got one?

Prendergast was far from brutal. That's just nonsense.

Podge_irl

MOD: We're not going down this road. You want to argue about Irish selection do it in the Ireland thread.

Eod100

Stormers and Scarlets results bad for us. Drop down to 9th now.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123392218#Comment_123392218

10th if Ulster win and Ulster are fighting for a top 8 spot as well

oppiuy

When we talk about pumping money into the schools, what does that achieve or outcome? Is it improved S&C or contact time training

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123392249#Comment_123392249

That Munster v Ulster match in a fortnight looks close to being knockout at this stage in terms of a top 8 finish...

Eod100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123392249#Comment_123392249

Think would have been level on points unless Ulster had won with a tbp. Awful result for Ulster.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123392584#Comment_123392584

Went from 19-5 to losing 19-22. Good result for Munster to be blunt. But winning the Ulster game in 2 weeks is still hugely important

JanuarySnowstor

Munster got out of jail there with that Ulster game. Looks like 2 wins now will get us over the line! Stand up and fight is our song, outside of the La Rochelle game we haven't seen that. Munster, time to stand up and be counted now!!

Im O Mahonys greatest fan but he's snored through the season. We need 2 collosal games from him now and no better guy