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Is there the ability and the will to change EU law?

  • 30-04-2025 12:45PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,895 ✭✭✭


    I'm aware that directives in EU law are passed by the European Commission (EC).

    What happens when an EU directive causes unnecessary inconvenience?

    Can the EC change the law if it wants to?

    If it can, do the members of the EC have the will to do so?

    For example, what if an EU directive has an effect that is a violation of the rights cited in the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR)? By the way, I know that the ECHR is not an EU convention.

    Another example is the EU's ban on chlorinated chicken, which I think is a trade barrier that was created on the pretext of health concerns. Surely, the EC's attitude to US food production is prejudiced, isn't it? The idea that letting the sale of that type of chicken in the EU would cause European producers of food to become careless about food safety is theoretical - and people wonder why Brexit took place!

    PS: Given that this is mainly about political aspect of EU law, I decided that the Legal Discussion forum isn't the right place for this OP.



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭prunudo


    At this stage I would strongly consider a rethink of our future relationship with the EU. In its current form, it is benefiting globalists rather than normal citizens, more and more control is being conceded to Brussels and its having an impact on how Irish people live. The over reach is massive and shows no signs of abating.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The answer to both your questions is yes. Quite obviously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,910 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    If your main example of "inconvenience" is the ban on "chlorinated chicken", there is nothing stopping American Chicken producers from air-chilling the chicken to get it into the european market.

    Why do you assume every instance of higher food safety standard in the EU is a pretext for a trade barrier. Some American producers are actually moving away from chlorination.

    Next you will be asking the EU to allow hormones in beef…



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,320 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    The idea that letting the sale of that type of chicken in the EU would cause European producers of food to become careless about food safety is theoretical

    if they didn't relax standards, then they wouldn't be able to compete with american producers who get away with low standards by chlorinating the meat after.

    chlorinating chicken is done precisely to facilitate lower standards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,774 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    You fundamentally misunderstand why chlorinated chicken is banned.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,441 ✭✭✭circadian


    Interesting, care to elaborate with examples/facts on this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Because they are hypocrites who for example bring out environmental directives that impinge on Irish farmers, while at the same time doing trade deals with South American to import cheap and sub standard beef.

    Or stop us burning peat, but allow us to import wood pellets from Brazil. The whole thing has turned into making money for the elites.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,441 ✭✭✭circadian


    These aren't examples or facts, merely unsubstantiated soundbites.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭prunudo


    There's an article about the mercosur deal with Ciaran Mullooly.

    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/no-to-mercosur-campaign-to-distribute-20000-leaflets-in-ireland-and-europe-mep/

    And an article about the pellets.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2024/1223/1487966-bord-na-mona/

    But back to the op question. With the small number of mep that Ireland elects, it is very hard ti change or influence decisions that are made in Europe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,973 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    …maybe we should consider irexit, im sure it would be just fine in regards trading with one of our biggest trade partners, just absolutely fine!



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Mercosur is a bad example given Ireland can unilaterally block it if they so wanted.

    It also doesn't make anyone hypocrites, it is just the political reality of negotiating free trade deals - deals that generally speaking make life better and cheaper for everyone.

    The Parlimament is not the primary decision making body of the EU anyway so the number of MEPs is not that relevant.

    The whole genesis of the thread seems to be a misguided rant about certain EU Directives they just don't personally like and making the world's largest leap to contort that into commentary on the operation of the EU.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,895 ✭✭✭political analyst


    But a majority of EU member states could make change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,574 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    The chlorinated chicken thing would amount to impacting any nation exporting chlorinated chicken so isn't unfairly targeting the US or anything. Simple fact is European food quality is far superior to the US so deregulation to allow US food stuffs would likely negatively impact health in general. So there's far more in terms of drawbacks in terms of allowing its sale.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,396 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    We'll be told soon that washing **** off chicken eggs is a trade barrier to selling into the US 🤷🏻‍♂️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,910 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    The US (if if wanted) could also join the non chlorinated chicken world if it wanted to…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 585 ✭✭✭antfin


    The OP seems mis-informed both about the general legislative process in the EU and the reasons for food standards, particularly the rules against chlorinated chicken.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,653 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Once again, nationalism advocates complete capitulation to corporate greed. I notice that the OP didn't deign to cite any studies showing the safety of chlorinated chicken or that the ban is purely political. They just stated that it's wrong with no argument whatsoever.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,276 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    The European Commission is not a legislature, and does not pass any laws.

    It proposes new policies, and it implements new laws, but it does not make the laws.

    It is somewhat like our civil service.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭nachouser


    Bring back Kermit, all is forgiven.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,098 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    The OP doesn't seem to comprehend the difference between an EU Directive and a Law.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,320 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Also worth pointing out that it's not just chlorinated chicken on the list of foodstuffs produced in the states which can't be sold here. IIRC the vast majority of pork products also fall foul, due to overuse of antibiotics and steroids.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,653 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Indeed. One example is Ractopamine. It's an animal feed additive which is illegal in Russia, India & China but perfectly fine in the US. It's linked to negative health outcomes including heart issues.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,946 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Since you mentioned chlorinated chicken lets dive into that to see why its a completely necessary and reasonable position for the EU to take. Like others have pointed out its not the chlorine that is the problem its the reasons they have to chlorine wash their chicken that the EU has issues with, which is due to the way they rear their birds leading to high instances of salmonella and other diseases.

    But even the chlorine doesn't actually stop the problems

    The US has about 1.2million cases of salmonella per year with a population of roughly 340 million.

    The EU has about 70000 cases with a population of roughly 450 million.

    You may argue "but 1.2 million is still only 0.3% of the population" however the EU has a rate of 0.01%. That equates to the chances of contracting salmonella in the US being 30 times higher than that in the EU.

    So go on and explain why the EU should reduce their standards and allow their citizens to be 30 times more likely to contract salmonella than they currently are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,061 ✭✭✭blackbox


    I used to work in the food industry. Different countries have different regulations. To export to the USA we had to confirm to their regulations - e.g. different colourings that are not permitted here etc.

    If US producers with to export, all they have to do is comply with the regulations of the countries they are exporting to.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,653 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That's the issue. The EU and the UK have high food standards, particularly with regard to animal products. To meet those standards would constitute a burden on American producers, one which they would prefer to avoid. However, removing the standards and flooding the European market with third world American crap would be politically toxic as it would devastate farmers.

    It's noteworthy that radical nationalists usually push for the worst outcomes for their own people.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Food safety + agri regulation and trade restrictions are "prejudiced" now? 😐️

    What is this wokery?

    As other posters mentioned, these kind of trade "barriers" go the other way as well and are sensible for many reasons.

    Can you not find a personal supply of yankee angel-dusted beef and chlorinated chickens for yourself to eat somehow without looking to fight the EU so it can be shovelled down all our gobs?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,925 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 585 ✭✭✭antfin


    It's difficult to debate with someone who is seeking to raise a point with absolutely no fundamental knowledge of any aspect of the points that they're trying to raise from their first sentence onwards!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,895 ✭✭✭political analyst




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,591 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Chlorinated chicken is banned by lots of non EU countries as well, Aus and NZ as western examples, alongside with US beef due to the ludicrous levels of hormones in it.

    Nothing protectionist about it, 100% food safety standards that should never, ever be relaxed to allow substandard insafe food into the country IMHO.



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