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2024 - Dublin STILL ranked as second worst city in the Europe for traveling by car

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,335 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    If you think that painted Bus-Lanes tear up a city, wait until you see the Metro underground construction.. not that it will really happen…

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2024/02/26/state-bodies-clash-over-possible-destruction-caused-by-st-stephens-green-metro-station/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Agree. But its amazing that these 204 other cities were able to do it. Dublin must be unique for some reason.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metro_systems



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 12,054 Mod ✭✭✭✭BeerNut


    Not unique, but we have a legal system which prioritises individual rights over the common good. At worst you get the planning delays and judicial reviews; at best you have the chilling effect of not planning anything which might raise objections from somebody. Add in a highly representative democratic system, where citizens have easy access to eager-to-please public representatives, and it makes it harder again. A lot of entries on that list are in China, and that's not solely a matter of population size.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,335 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    A lot of these cities especially in western Europe had their Metro systems built following the destruction of their cities in WW2, I mean London started in the 19th century! Whereas in Dublin during the time of WW2 the Tram lines were ripped up and building demolished to make way for wider roads, all to accommodate the private car… Now Dublin is too densely built up to allow the ground to be ripped up to build an underground system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Sydney, Salvador, Montreal, Copenhagen, Rennes, Thessaloniki, Turin.

    Thats not to mentioned the 40 odd between India, China, Vietnam and even Lagos all constructed in the last 25 years or so.

    We've no excuse.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,335 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Most of your examples are either part of existing underground systems or installed in relatively new cities in comparison to Dublin, which was first established in Viking times..

    I've citied two examples, Glasnevin and Stephens green where the proposed metro was vehemently objected to by residents, businesses and politicians.. Here's another for the Charlemont street and south metro station:

    NTA Charlemont Proposal
    • Adds the additional cost of a longer tunnel and the full build out of
    an additional station (hundreds of million euro)
    • Adds construction complexity in a very constrained site including“Dartmouth Road closed to traffic for 2.5 to up to 5 years

    We all want World Class public transport in the city, however there's no magical solution without compromise, which doesn't appear to be happening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,280 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    well we do have an excuse, our politicians and legal systems value the individual over the greater good. i can't see that changing any time soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Oh agree. Gave up decades ago myself. Never going to happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,023 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Metrolink must be built.
    Bus connects must be built.
    Dart+ must be built.
    Dart underground must be built.
    New LUAS lines to finglas, and Lucan must be built.
    A second metro to DSW must be built.
    More LUAS lines that TII have identified must be built- and that’s just Dublin!

    We better hope these new planning courts are worth the effort that has been put into them, to speed up JR decisions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,544 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    One cheap thing they could do to improve and encourage public transport is to fine anyone using speakers on public transport.

    One small step.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,280 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    it's funny i use dart and buses in dublin all the time and i can't think of encountering this even once. people go on like it's on every single journey. maybe i've just been lucky.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,544 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Hmmm, I encounter it regularly. But maybe I'm more easily annoyed 🙄. It's not just the lack of headphones, it's people loudly talking their private business on public transport .. for long periods of time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    I'm sure that the residents of Sandymount would welcome a cycle lane, what they object to is the seizure of the road instead on putting doing the bleedin' obvious and putting the aforesaid cycle lane on the grass verge and sand that lies beyond the road. The Sandymount project is not so much designed to facilitate cyclists as an it is anti motorist measure, on a regional road.

    And while people playing videos on speakers may or may not be a huge problem, there is no doubt that anti social behaviour is a real deterrent to using public transport and as usual little or nothing is done about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,335 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    I'm sure you know very well why putting the cycle lanes on the grass verge isn't such the easy option as you're trying to make out here..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,023 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I’m not familiar with this area of the city, but why can’t they put the cycle lane on the grass verge?
    Erosion issues?
    If so, surely this means the road is under erosion danger also?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,335 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Putting it off road will mean extra construction due to the fact that the route isn't continuous and also covers areas of Dublin bay protected by EU law, so studies would have to be done on how to route the cycle lanes around those areas.. experts put 15 years as the figure needed to make the route off-road… meaning the S2C cycle route will enter it's 40 year of planning and implementation..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,023 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 644 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    Tenzor has already said the important bit, but just to add that approach also fails to deal with the constrained section at the bottom of Strand Road at the Merrion Gates.

    It's been shown before recently during the Irish Water works that Strand Road can be made one way, without the world completely collapsing in on itself. Mysteriously a lot of people seem to have forgotten that already.

    Post edited by noelfirl on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    They have had plenty of time to plan this, it should either be done properly or not at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    Majority clearly votes not at all



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It is being done properly. Just not the way you want.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    It is being done in a way that treats thousands of citizens with contempt so that they can avoid the hassle of doing it right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,335 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    So you've been told that the off-road cycle route would impact areas covered by an EU Special Area of Conservation, would take up to 15 years to build, and would cost 20 times more than putting the cycle route on the road, and the multiple meetings and consultations which show that local areas won't suddenly implode with vehicular traffic yet you still think it's upsetting feelings…..!?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It almost certainly is still upsetting some feelings but that is a pretty awful basis for making policy decisions.

    The idea that local residents should have some kind of personal veto on everything that happens in their area, even a trial, is the height of absurdity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,237 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Bus travel will not replace car travel and there is not room in the city to make the majority of bus routes QBR enabled.

    Yes there is - if car commuters have to lose out then that's tough, but that's what bus priority means.

    The number of car owners in the country is going up and it will continue to go up, in line with our population increase.

    Sure, but that's not a justification for allowing cars into Dublin city centre at all, never mind allowing them to retain the disproportionate priority they have now.

    Without a Metro, we will never reverse the trend towards increasing car ownership in the city.

    Is there a trend towards increasing car ownership in the city though?

    Outside of Dublin city many households have 2 cars or more, in the city there are many with none, or a car that is only used at the weekend. Many households are giving up their cars and using services like Go Car occasionally.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,237 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    How would a bus route on the M50 be supposed to work exactly?

    You can't have bus stops on the motorway.

    So at every junction the bus has to pull off the motorway, drive to where a stop can be placed, stop, find a place where it can turn around, and rejoin the motorway. This is going to take ages

    Even so the stops will not be within walking distance of where most passengers want to go. So local bus - wait - M50 bus - wait - local bus at the other end. So where's the advantage?

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Not everyone traveling to the city lives in the city.

    Many people travel cross city for work. There is no way you can go from North County to South County quicker on a bus than you can in a car on the M50. Its not even close.

    How many bus routes operate on 100% QBR? Answer, zero.

    In the future, buses will/may have a greater share of the road exclusivley, but its never going to be anywhere near 100% road share.

    If its not 100% road share in favour of buses, they are never going to be quicker or more convenient than the car for most commuters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Thats why people drive.

    An underground network could moce a lot of those people to their destination quicker than the car. Buses cant even enter the race, as you rightly say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,335 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    People drive because there's no cycle-lane network, no Bus QBR network… Building Multi-billion Euro undergrounds that may or may not have a station near your home or work place isn't the answer…

    Let's spend a lot less on improving what can be done NOW and not in 10 or 15 years time… We can't even build a Hospital on time or anywhere close to budget.

    Post edited by Tenzor07 on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Bus ramps should have been engineered when the road was upgraded. These should have led to interchange points with radial routes. So that anyone in Mulhaddart could take any bus toward town, and quickly change to a bus to Sandyford. It was doable when the M50 was upgraded, it would have cost something but it would have provided effective PT for some of those who use the M50 and if traffic was reduced by 10% then it would work better for those who needed it.

    I would build and upgrade short routes parallel to the M50 for local journeys, then toll all trips on the M50, so that the €2 on the bus would be less than the toll. You could even vary the toll to charge more at peak times. I would further have built park and rides connected to these bus services, so that people are parked there rather than at their employer on the other side of the city.



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