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Presidential Election 2025

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Large family/local network garners her a lot of votes,never saw the attraction myself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Where do you see McDowell getting his nomination from?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    So that’s a no to Connolly having achieved anything in those roles



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 217 ✭✭topcat72


    Potentially Seanad senators as nominees? He only needs 20. Now, I accept it's the easiest route without a party nominating, but not impossible, if he wanted to run a campaign.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Still time for a decent campaign but, yeah, I was expecting the major parties to get their act together after the Seanad elections etc. Maybe now that the Oireachtas committee Chairs are sorted.

    FF is just stuck - nominating Bertie would destroy 15 years of Micheál's work rehabilitating the party. Cynthia is too much a novice - could the party of government not find anyone more experienced? Barry Andrews had a big name but never made the top table.

    FG will nominate someone but kicked the can to June with some subcommittee to report. Mairead McGuinness is the obvious FG candidate but she gets no love in the party - Simon wanted Frances and now he will try to find an alternative.

    SF were stung by Martin McGuinness's performance in 2011 - his 13.7% was well ahead of their general election result but he got almost no transfers. No SF candidate can aspire to the Aras unless that changes fundamentally.

    Labour invited the SDs and Greens to talks about a joint candidate but the talks have got nowhere.

    McDowell would run if someone would finance his campaign but he can't win because - he was leader of the PDs.

    The road to the Aras is littered with political corpses. The winner scoops the big prize but everyone else is left in the dust - Brian Lenihan Sr., Austen Curry, Mary Banotti, Dana, David Norris, Sean Gallagher… the list is endless. Even Tom O'Higgins who almost unseated Dev in 1966 was sidelined to the judiciary (not bad, but still)

    If this drags on to the summer, we'll have Kamala Harris deja vu.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Cynthia is too much a novice...

    At the same time, a qualified barrister might be a good fit for the core role of our President!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    There are 13 independent senators that vary across the political spectrum and only 18 total outside of SF FG and FF so he would need one of those parties to back him for a pure senate run or somehow so that's not happening. Cobbling together 20 independent senators and tds is also quite unlikely due to his own personal politics and political history and also it would be like herding cats when it comes to Irish Independent politicians. His best chance is councils but as is the same for any other non party candidate he's going to have to work hard to convince some of them to piss off whichever partys HQ.

    The math's this year simply make even 1 non party candidate very very unlikely.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Like Mary Robinson, who couldn't be arsed finishing her term because she got a better offer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,650 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    the responsibilities of the city council are not the responsibilities of the mayor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,448 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    There are at most five Senators who would nominate him, one being himself.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,569 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Nobody wants to be the only confirmed candidate out there.

    Means the media focus, both positive and negative, is solely on them. More time and likelihood of negative stories surfacing that would damage their chances.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,104 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Irish Times highlighted this on their podcast a few weeks back. In 2011 David Norris was the first candidate out the door and he got so much attention that he ended up temporarily leaving the campaign.

    Also, we're not America. We don't need massive long campaigns. It's still over 6 months to the election, loads of time to sort candidates.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Loads of time for ordinary punters but there is already fierce jockeying for position, especially in FG, the largest party which still thinks its brand could help a candidate, despite its disaster in 2011.

    Fionnán Sheehan got a juicy bit of speculation - if Sean Kelly is elected, his vacant seat in the European Parliament would go to…..drum roll, please …. Senator…..Martin… Conway! https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/fionnan-sheahan-mairead-mcguinness-is-aras-papabile-but-she-only-preaches-to-the-partisan-so-far/a732119342.html

    In Europe it is routine for seats in parliament to be in the gift of the party machine. But a bit of a shock for Irish voters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Indeed 2-3 months is more than enough time for a campaign



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,448 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I imagine he might, maybe, have enough sense to decline and let it go to Buttimer or more likely, Senator Eileen Lynch as I suspect Buttimer would stay in the Dáil.

    Replacement lists are used here so frequently I'd have thought most people who would care would be aware of them. It's rare enough for there not to be a MEP elected to the Dáil, didn't happen this time but that's due to how close the elections were more than anything else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,104 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Yep, just checked the MEP list for Ireland South (https://corkcityreturningofficer.com/index.php/european-and-local-elections-2024/48-notice-of-poll-european-election-2024) and the Fine Gael list was 1. Sean Kelly, 2. John Mullins, 3. Martin Conway, 4. Jerry Buttimer, 5. Eileen Lynch.

    John Mullins sadly passed away in the past few weeks so that would put Conway to the top of the list. Presumably he wouldn't be so bold as to take the role though, would he? And presumably Buttimer would prefer to keep his Dáil seat, so I'd imagine it would fall to Eileen Lynch who is a senator now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭rock22


    Yet Mary Robinson's success was often put down to her early nomination, having the media attention all to herself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Dick Spring pulled the greatest coup in recent decades, firstly by declaring that Labour would make a contest of Hillery’s succession (while FG were ready to give Haughey/Lenihan a walk-over), and secondly by-passing his own troops and plucking Mary Robinson out of retirement to muster Mná na hÉireann. He understood that there was an anti-FF majority which Robinson (unlike his socialist comrades) could capture by finishing second to FF on the first count I.e. relegating FG to third place by getting into the field with the right candidate while FG were still faffing around.

    Not only did Robinson win and change the Presidency, there was a “Spring Tide” for Labour the following year.

    The media helped Robinson immensely but her Hot Press interview was “the longest suicide note” because she seemed to be endorsing abortion in exceptional circumstances and had to backpedal furiously.

    None of that applies now. There will be a contest, Labour will not have the initiative, Mná na hÉireann will not vote as a bloc (unless some latter-day Pee Flynn arouses them), and candidates do not survive long in the glare of media scrutiny. Wilting lettuces all!

    Post edited by Caquas on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,569 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    A different world, without social media and the pile-ons that come with it..

    And indeed, without the internet at all which makes digging into the past for any slight slip-up significantly easier.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭robwen


    I'd say it had more to do with the the scandal that developed during the campaign over the Lenihan calls to Hillery, Lenihan was well on his way to winning before that blew up



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭Caquas


    No. Although the Lenihan campaign was engulfed in chaos after revelations about his calls to the Aras in 1982 (can anyone explain why such phone calls would be improper?), the net effect on the first count was roughly zero because Lenihan won sympathy for the way he was treated (i.e. knifed by Haughey).

    He won 44% of first preferences - surely enough to win this year - but he lost because Austin Currie's transfers went 7:1 in favour of Robinson. This was a time when an FF/FG coalition was inconceivable because the two parties were distinct 😏 but I think (and Mary Robinson believes) that the decisive moment was P. Flynn's hamfisted intervention - questioning her family values as a career woman - which incensed Mná na hÉireann, including female FG supporters. Polls showed that women switched towards Robinson and away from Lenihan in the final stage of the campaign.

    No Irish politician today will knowingly step on women's toes but there is still tremendous potential for verbal gaffes in a Presidential contest because the office is devoid of substance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭robwen


    No. For the majority of the campaign, it was widely expected that Lenihan would handily win the election. In the last two weeks of the election, however, Lenihan's campaign was mired in controversy, which ultimately tipped the balance in favour of Robinson. On 22 October 1990, Garret FitzGerald appeared on the RTÉ show Questions & Answers, and accused Lenihan of making inappropriate phone calls to ex-president Patrick Hillery, in an attempt to persuade the president to invite Charles Haughey to form a government without calling a general election. Lenihan repeatedly denied that he had made such a phone call, but on 25 October Jim Duffy released a recording in which Lenihan confirmed that he had in fact made the call. Lenihan went on to state that "on mature recollection" he had not made the call, a statement which was widely disbelieved.

    Support for Lenihan plunged, with polls showing a decrease from an expected 52% of first-preference-votes to 33%, while Robinson's support increased from 31% of first-preference-votes to 51%.

    One week from the election, a second scandal resulted in backlash against the Lenihan campaign, particularly amongst women. Pádraig Flynn, then a Fianna Fáil cabinet minister, appeared on the radio programme Saturday View, and delivered a sexist diatribe against Robinson, despite attempts from other panelists to silence him. Among other things, he criticised Robinson for having a "newfound interest in her family", as well as claiming that she "has to have new clothes and her new look and her new hairdo and she has the new interest in family, being a mother and all that kind of thing. But you know, none of us who knew Mary Robinson very well in previous incarnations ever heard her claiming to be a great wife and mother."

    In the election on 9 November, Lenihan won the largest share of first-preference-votes, with 44.1%, and Robinson was in second position with 38.9%. Robinson, however, secured 76.7% of Currie's transfer votes, the result being that Robinson won the presidency with a final share of 52.8% of the vote to Lenihan's 47.2%. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,944 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I have to say, I can understand Mairéad McGuinness being so circumspect in her decision making and I honestly think her chances of deciding to run is currently at 50/50.

    The thing with Irish presidential elections, as you have all identified with historical examples above, is that because of the almost complete lack of real politics in the campaign, the void of the campaign is filled with frankly vicious, intimate and personal scrutiny, not just of the particular candidates' character and deeds, but those of basically everyone they ever met or had the misfortune to share a room with.

    And while I had no time for Dana's nonsense on the radio last week, because I believe her to be a spiteful and ultra conservative woman selling a religious agenda which was completely inappropriate to the office of president, I can see why potential candidates wouldn't want the hassle of it all in the later decades of their life.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,973 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    If you don't understand why such a call was improper, then you can't understand who voters felt, hence the rest of your analysis is just fluff.

    The army officer responsible for security was instructed by the President not to put such calls thought that evening for obvious reasons. And when Lenihan was refused he threatened the officer's career - at the time the officer was a recently promoted captain I believe (the officer retired at a much senior rank thankfully, due process was up held).

    So he attempted to influence the President, deny the people their right to vote in a new Dail and threatened an officer acting on the direct command of a superior officer - the Supreme Commander of the defence forces. Now you may think that is acceptable behaviour for someone you are about to elect to defend the constitution and up hold your rights, but the vast majority of the voters and even his own party most certainly did not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭Caquas


    A blustering, question-dodging response - "well if you don't understand that…." "For obvious reasons….".

    What's wrong with trying to influence the President in that situation? In fact, is it not essential for the President, if he is to exercise the only power within his absolute discretion, to establish if an alternative government could be established by the Dail which had only just been elected six months earlier? Who, other than the Leader of the Opposition, could better inform him about that possibility?

    The alleged threats to the army officer only emerged after the Presidential election so it was not the cause of the controversy in 1990 and my question remains - why was it wrong for Lenihan to phone the Aras that night? He should have stuck to his original answer - the truth would have set him free!

    Before you rush to answer, bear in mind that the three general elections in 1981/82 laid the basis for the most disastrous period in our recent political, economic and social history. What a pity we didn't have a Head of State who could have knocked heads together and told Charlie and Garret and the rest of them to sort things out!

    Post edited by Caquas on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,650 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Was it not Lenihan getting caught out lying that caused the biggest issue - 'on mature recollection' etc etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Are you contradicting me by repeating my explanation? 🤯

    As I said net effect of the Aras phone-calls fiasco on Lenihan's support was zero i.e. Lenihan was badly damaged initially but won back that support, mainly out of sympathy for his treatment.

    I also said it was P. Flynn who tipped the scales to Robinson in the end. That was my main point!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭monseiur


    A neighbour of mine who is a dyed in the wool blueshirt is convinced that Leo Varadker will be FG's candidate - I hope he's right, would love to see him loose his deposit😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭Caquas


    As I said, he should have stuck with the truth. But the media and the Opposition claimed his offence was trying to phone the President that night. Why?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    He just very publicly took up a new job and I think he made it clear he's done with politics at least for the time being, I wouldn't put it past him running in 7 or 14+ years though.



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