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Very quiet in here

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 91,013 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    What can you post as part of "IMHO" in CA?

    It's a shame to lose any poster



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 26,055 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    It's always been the policy in DRP that the one who gave the warning/ban is recused from the review, and the alternate cmod reviews instead. If that's not possible/practical then it should go straight to the admin level instead. I don't recall the case you mentioned personally, but it shouldn't have gone as described. But you also refer to a thread ban which doesn't come under DRP. Are you sure about the details of that one?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,523 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    The case I mentioned happened last year before the new rules were enacted or even discussed.

    TOS issued the ban after my exchange with Ancapailldorcha, we had reached something of an agreement to lift the ban but there was an outstanding issue TOS wasn't willing to reach agreement on (he issued a warning for me to stop engaging with a poster a day after a post was made then issued an identical warning for a post made on the same day and based his ban on that which I felt was unfair as I had already made the post a day before the initial warning was issued, it seemed straight forward enough to admit that mistake but we couldn't reach an agreement, then I ended up in conversation with Ancapailldorcha in DRP).

    I know this is getting way off topic now, but I don't think a cmod who is being abusive to a poster should ever oversee a DRP for that user or any other user for that matter.

    You can't roll around in the dirt with users in one breath and then be put in charge of their dispute resolution in the next.

    Glazers Out!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,563 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 26,055 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    DRP doesn't really have any mechanism or regard any past interactions with mod/cmod involved, or other context. It's always been pretty linear, so it's never somethings that's been considered. If a user did raise the point on the DRP, we'd almost certainly try and accommodate it though.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,523 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    The DRP thread?

    It's in the archive I would assume.

    Can you not recall it? Is that why you're asking me for the link?

    I can try and set time aside to dig it out of its necessary but I'm reasonably sure you can recollect it.

    I went and found it, here you go...

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,523 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    I appreciate that.

    I did ask that this be taken into consideration at the time and it was eventually ruled on by Mickeroo (after an extended period with no reply from anyone) who ignored that element and who from my experience seems to not be particularly interested in listening to anything I've ever had to say in any setting.

    I'm not attempting to resurrect that DRP thread. It's over and done with.

    I was trying to qualify why I was commenting on Ancapailldorcha's involvement in these situations, namely the Hamachi thread today where he said the would review the situation at 15.43 and lo and behold had reached a conclusion at 15.55. I'm just wondering what those 12 minutes represent in terms of reviewing the situation and reaching a conclusion. It doesn't seem like any actual reflection on the situation took place at all.

    Why this is relevant is that bans are being handed out in CA like confetti, now we've seen the first six month ban awarded and the DRP process has not changed one iota since last year when it wasn't fit for purpose either.

    Glazers Out!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,563 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I wasn't remotely involved in that beyond handling the DRP. I tried to reach a mutually agreeably compromise.

    It looks like you're just looking to take pot shots at me again. I'm going to leave it at that.

    Post edited by ancapailldorcha on

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,523 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    That's not the case at all.

    You knew going into that DRP that you were personally involved in the situation but didn't recuse yourself and you completely ignored the issues at hand and upheld the ban without considering the real nub of the issue which was the timing of the warnings that were handed out. Ten of swords already agreed to overturn the ban but didn't want to take responsibility for issuing warnings unfairly which was why I didn't agree to lifting the ban on his terms, I felt it was only fair to acknowledge the timing of the warnings wasn't fair, that was the issue.

    You saw an opportunity to take a pot shot at me and grabbed it with both hands when you should have stood aside and allowed someone else to handle it.

    So you'll excuse me if I don't accept you taking the moral high ground here.

    This speaks to a larger issue in how users and moderators interact albeit in fairness, I haven't seen any other moderators engage in the type of on thread behaviour you indulge in, so maybe it's an easier issue to fix than it appears.

    Glazers Out!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,563 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I'm not interested in a back and forth with you. I have a right to call you out on your dishonesty. I've done that so reading more of your posts is pointless.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,325 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    You think asking for proof or something to actually back up your posts is a problem? I can see why you had to re register to post that!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,523 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Reading that thread (which you requested I share the link for and did) shows that you knowingly engaged in the DRP process after being involved in what led to it.

    According to what Spear posted earlier, you should have recused yourself but chose not to.

    Ultimately, you get way too involved in extremely heated discussions to be expected to act in a non partisan manner in dispute resolution.

    Even the tone of your response to me is extremely condescending. I haven't been dishonest here at all, I've presented the facts accurately yet you cite some notional right to call out my dishonesty?

    This is relevant inasmuch as it relates to how long term bans will typically just be upheld by you going forward.

    You paused for 12 minutes today before issuing your verdict, but you could have skipped the whole DRP exercise as it was nothing more than theatrics. You're never going to take that responsibility seriously because it's just a means of sticking it to people you don't like or agree with. What's the solution? Just let someone else take the responsibility. Less work for you. A win win.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Ah this place just gets worse as things go along.

    So you can get up to 6 warnings is it and you are only judged on your last warning.

    A poster who mentioned a family member which at worst should have been a non pointed warning is now gone off the site.

    Contributing to the site since 2014 and got a 12 minute review and we all know it wasn't even 12 minutes as the posters views doesn't align with the Cmod so it was never going any other way.

    It is literally pointless submitting for a review if you don't hold left wing views.

    I honestly can't help but feel this place is deliberately trying to wind itself down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,325 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    I don't believe left or right wing views have anything to do with mods decisions. You're creating an issue that doesn't exist.

    The issue is that there is no appeal until the 6 month ban, allowing no oversight whatsoever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    The poster has extreme left wing views and is condescending and rude to people with opposing views.

    If you have centre or right views you are wasting your time appealing.

    There could not be a worse choice for the role and it should be someone who can act impartial.

    I completely agree with your last part alright, Mods basically can do way they want and don't need to justify their decisions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,380 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Well that answers the question of whether you can appeal previous sanctions.

    Which gives rise to another question, is DRP is actually needed anymore?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,563 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    There is the rest of the site. The 6 month rule is only for sanctions issued in Current Affairs.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,380 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I'm aware of that.

    But it would appear than appeals from the likes of CA are shut down in minutes because of the non appeal rule, but other appeals are left to fester and left for weeks with the OP having to bump their own thread, sometimes multiple times.

    Also as CA infractions cannot be appealed and only the one that triggers the 6 month can, it doesn't really seem fair that previous unappealable sanctions can be brought up in the thread to help justify the sanction that trigged the 6 months.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 351 ✭✭boardsdotie44


    Context would play a major part in whether something said is racist or not for example..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,531 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Yep, I can think of a cohort that actively make any thread they can to be about complaining about trans people…

    They really don't hold extreme views… They do tend to attract a subset that do get ridiculously aggressive over them even being a mod though.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,523 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    They literally posted today endorsing violence against the far right who, lest we forget are a rabble of barely coherent idiots in Ireland.

    So I'll take your assertions about them not having extreme views with a pinch of salt. Tbh I wouldn't expect any less as you're pretty much in lock step with most of those extreme left wing opinions yourself.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,531 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    They posted a meme after somebody posted a GIF of a known Nazi getting slapped by a local... Honestly, being amused by that is not a sign of extremism. Here's the dreaded meme...I think you're really reaching and intentionally omitting the context. So nope, I think there's as much to do with personal issues you have with moderators.

    1000050726.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,523 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Well that nonsense because I took the p1ss out of Justin Barrett as well.

    I don't advocate for violence however, and beyond "it's just a meme" there's a cohort on boards with that "smash the fash" mentality that excuses violent behaviour, and it's no surprise it's minimalised like this.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,531 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    And I'll happily stand by my post, you've produced no evidence that Capaill is an extremist. Pretty much every feedback thread that crops up seems to include lots of targeting of specific mods and admins due to personal gripes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,523 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    I've called him out for sure and with good reason as demonstrated on this thread. Nobody should be above reproach, just because you volunteer on this site doesn't mean you get to do as you please and not face criticism, unless of course such a thing is unpallatable which would call your general motivation for volunteering into question.

    I'm talking about a guy who lamented the kids being killed in Southport last year as been as boon for the far right (post deleted but not before a whole host of users saw it and called him out on it).

    So I'll stand by my assertion as its something other people have observed as well. He has no issue lying about me and utilising the resources at his disposal to put me to the sword when the opportunity arises. Some occasional mild criticism is hardly a huge cross to bare..

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,569 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I'm currently serving a 3 months ban because I was amused by something happening to a convicted rapist so YMMV depending on how the mod applies their own personal opinions.

    The current no appeal CA ban rules are BS. We were told that this will allow for more robust debate, but what really allow is lazy and unaccountable moderation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,531 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    I'm actually inclined to agree with you on the lack of appeals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,143 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    I'm not a regular in CA - aside from the occasional post in the Enoch Burke thread - so I can't really say what it's like in there these days. But my two cents is that not having a right of appeal until you get a six month ban does seem extremely stringent.

    I get the thinking behind making a day/week ban unappealable - even if I don't like the idea of unappealable bans in principle, but in practice you have to cut your cloth to measure if there's limited resources here to provide moderation in the first place - but I think a month ban being the point where one can lodge an appeal is reasonably fair and would be a better approach IMO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55,634 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    I dont see what the point of an appeal is unfortunately.

    When they take just take 12 mins to review an appeal, what is going to be the difference going forward?

    When there was appeals, did we ever see an successful one? Mods will remain unaccountable



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,143 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    I've seen many successful appeals in dispute resolution and - before that - prison down through the years.



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