Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Duncan Casey turned 24 in 2014. He had zero caps and never got anymore.

JJ Hanrahan turned 22 in 2014. He had zero caps and never got anymore.

David Foley got two Ireland caps with his first at 25.

Craig Casey debuted for Ireland at 21, was selected for a Rugby World Cup and had a dozen Ireland caps by the time he was 24.

Jack Crowley had 19 caps by the time he was 24 having debuted when he was 22.

Coombes made his first Ireland test team at 22 (he isn't Ireland 23 worthy, but certainly Ireland 33 worthy). Nash is 23 level.

I picked 3 "like for like" examples - this isn't a make believe narrative. In terms of how they measure up, there is no comparison.

Really from that period we are only talking about Rory Scannell and Niall Scanell making the grade of even bubble internationals (not even regular 23 players), that's the yawning gap in the Munster squad. If I go down further on it even the quality of the non capped players just isn't there from that generation vs. the most recent one.

Frankly if Munster produce 3-4 regular home grown regular internationals (i.e. regularly in Ireland 23s) every 5-6 years along with some more bubble players (potential to cover gaps for Ireland) and squad players at provincial level, they are fine. Add to that in some Leinster bred players like Beirne, Loughman and (to an extent) Jager then Munster should be in and around 10-12 players of the Ireland 33 every squad and getting 5-7 players in the 23. It's the missing generation that is Munster's problem and that DOES predate Nucifora.

And no, having being involved in age grade rugby around that period, this was clear to everyone. The year JJ got nominated for Junior World Player of the year, Munster only had 4 of the 29 in that Junior World Cup squad. There were also only 4 in 2013. 2 in 2011! I can go on here - check the age grade results around then as well. They were NOT pretty.

The IRFU official account responded to some Munster based "fan" the other week who got outraged at Jack Crowley not featuring in promotional material posted on twitter. Maybe you think it's stupid, maybe it's a gigantic waste of their time, but rightly or wrongly they absolutely do care about social media accounts.

And Leinster had to turn off replies to a post about Ross Byrne.

The continued portrayal on here that rubbish on social media only comes from "fans of a certain province / certain part of the world" is nonsense.

In any case, I don't understand why "social media posts" keep getting dragged into the discussion here. Why can't we debate what posters have actually said on here.

And it completely misses my point on this; even if you think "entitled social media users from a certain part of the world" are the most bad-faith, bad-actors in all of this, their points on THIS seem to have been correct; the IRFU have actually changed their policy.

That answer seems quite close to the fudge I feared as you never actually directly answer my question.

The current guys you mentioned aren't even what I am really talking about, though do play a part, I meant more the level below that, the likes of Gleeson, Edogbo x 2, Kendellen, O'Connell, Quinn, Campbell, O'Connor, and hyped even younger players like O'Leary Kareem.

Sure the buck stops with the most senior person but if that is the case he was the man in charge when three provinces won the league during his time at the top, with Munster being the most recent.

Leinster rugby official account had to turn off replies to one of their posts. They're eejits everywhere unfortunately a posters here go to seek such eejits and make mileage here.

If people want I'm sure Munster fans here could post a few beauties from Leinster fans in X but other than point scoring what does it achieve ina discussion forum.

I'm surprised that the IRFU haven't stepped in before to address the quality of coaching at the other provinces. It's been marked for years how deficient they have been in comparison to Leinster in basic skills. Would lads like Staunton, Hanrahan or Doak have developed to the potential they were projected to have, if they'd come through Leinster's system?

Head coaches are one thing, and I'd have a lot of criticism of the various hires over the last decade, but surely the IRFU should be ensuring that each province is developing players with an equivalent level of base skills.

On this topic yes it is. There are issues in Ulster rugby that historically have not got the same traction. Now part of this is the fact that the “southern” media naturally does not have the same presence there, but they are there.

The IRFU will naturally respond to attention. The point I have consistently made is that the IRFU are constantly tweaking the “model”. You just don’t always hear about it because they don’t have to disclose it to you or I. If it is something like this (and yes certain social media accounts have pushed this, that’s a fact) or say something like Connacht Rugby protests, then they will feel the need to respond.

From a Munster perspective, at least, I think things began to improve towards the end of the JvG era, and have clearly significantly improved since Mike Prendergast has been on board. But you'd imagine that base level of skills should be happening further down the chain.

And tbh, I don't think Hanrahan's lack of basic skills were what prevented him from becoming a top player; he was a really skillful player, but he 1) seemed to be a real confidence player and 2) lacked distance in his kicking.

Fwiw, I think working with Mike Prendergast would seem like a pretty attractive prospect, making Munster a more attractive proposition. The issue now is that how Munster play is pretty removed from how Ireland are playing. But I am glad Munster are pursuing it, because 1) I believe it's the only way we can compete against the monster packs at the pointy end of Europe and 2) it's a more attractive brand of rugby to watch.

I’m not suggesting there’s a problem.

I’m also not suggesting tweaking Central Contracts is wrong either, because they’ve done this many times. More times than you’d be aware of.

The point is they feel the need to publicise this. I know it gives certain people a dopamine boost, but don’t get carried away.

I really hope Tommy O'Brien stays fit, same as I have for the last couple years. Would love to see him in green.

Mad to think he'd likely have been the starting 14 for the last few seasons.

He's playing second row

Imagine if we could have such an intense rivalry between two excellent young candidates in every position. It’s a good thing. We’ve bigger problems elsewhere.

This is clearly rubbish. He has 5 starts at lock and 4 at blindside this season.

You cannot consider that as "full time" at lock and "rarely played and doesn't anymore" at back row.