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Does activism achieve anything?

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It depends. The public saw the Irish water setup on shaky ground, only took a bit of pressure to get government to roll over, most coming from the "never paying for anything" sector of society. Didn't see the same with property tax.

    That isn't true. The majority of Irish People were against Irish Water for what it was, a cash grab and certain privatisation mimicked on the absolute clusterfúck that is the water services in Wales and England.

    The government certainly didn't roll over either over a "bit of pressure", they dug in for nearly 3 years with the main protagonists being Phil "reduced to a trickle" Hogan and Alan "AK47" Kelly.

    Or the dangerously stupid Noel "ISIS" Coonan.

    It was an absolute shameful act by FG and Labour and how they treated the Irish Public with absolute distain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,759 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    It achieved a lot for Hitler, Stalin and Mao. According to the internet

    In his first years as a revolutionary Mao was a social activist.

    Adolf Hitler: Socialist Activist.

    (Stalin) A dedicated activist, he relished the conspiracy and paranoia of the revolutionary underground of Tsarist Russia. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,474 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    And it doesn't have to be a referendum. The clerical sex abuse scandal didn't come to light without activism. Lots of it was low level , very unpopular and over decades.

    Being popular at the start is not really the point. The point is to raise awareness AND get the public on side. The gay marriage referendum passed with a two-thirds majority. But ask a gay rights activist in the 60s, 70s, and 80s of they got support from two-thirds of the population and you'd get a different story.

    The point is to change minds and grow the movement. If it was already popular, it wouldn't need as much work to get political support.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭StormForce13


    I'm an armchair activist, in so far as I'm not renewing my TV licence online because I'm outraged about something or other that RTE does. Does that mean that I can now dress like RB-B and Paul Murphy and grow my hair as long as Mick Wallace?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,581 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Or change minds of the youth and when the old die off change will arrive.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,350 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 640 ✭✭✭littlefeet




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,759 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Influencers are the new Activists.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 14,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Yes, absolutely.

    How else do you think women obtained the vote a century ago, workers have protections and unions, LGBT enjoy the freedoms and rights today denied to them for most of human history, etc. ?

    Protest and activism has achieved massive social progress. Rights had to be hard fought for, they weren't just given away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,270 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I think activism in itself is fine when it reflects the broader view of a particular grouping.
    However, I see problems can occur when a person is either termed an “activist” or is self appointed, but speaks from their own viewpoint and not the broader group. Using their activism more for their own “empowerment” rather than speaking for a particular grouping.

    In this day and age an “activist” can very easily create a high profile on social media, creating an impression that all of the activist’s views are reflected by the broader grouping they purport to represent.
    But more often than not this is not the case. It is just an individual who has created a visible profile, with an opinion.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,596 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Local levels.. about 6/7 years ago the locals en masse started lobbying local politicians and the DCC to resurface the paths…a popular neighbour had a fall. And the paths were truly in shît, damaged by tree roots coming up and general wear. Had to lobby / harass them to change the bulbs in the streetlights, the same to get them back cutting the grass verges post covid. Seemingly the locals here now manage DCC. Through lobbying/activism. Because without it, they’ll do very little. They’ve shown that.

    If people weren’t calling, emailing, criticising, threatening consequences in 2025 in what’s a first world supposed ‘well off’ democracy, (so we get told)…. The place would be in shît..so activism is required..unfortunately. The reality, often now if we just left these people to do what they are supposed to / what we need and are paying them for aka ‘doing the right thing’, often just be left waiting….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    It seems to have brought success for the campaign group ‘For Women Scotland’. They formed in 2018 and after a lengthy legal campaign, the Supreme Court in the UK ruled yesterday that "the terms woman and sex in the Equality Act 2010 (in the UK) refer to a biological woman and biological sex".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,314 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Hitler was never a socialist activist. You may be thinking of Mussolini, who was.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,314 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    If you're suggesting that activism is or should not be required in a democracy, you could not be more wrong. On the contrary, activism should be more effective in a democracy than in any other form of government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,974 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Would that be activism or advocacy? If maintaining paths is part of the Council's remit yet it fails to maintain them due to underresourcing, apathy, incomptence etc. then they'll have to be lobbied, nagged and shamed into doing so. Problem with that is that is it results in a he who shouts loudest situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,596 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    probably both.

    Other examples of activism here was to get new pedestrian crossing beside the boys primary school …and get the tennis courts in the park refurbished…. Both required direct community intervention.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,422 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    That is activism in the local area local needs . And you are right because while the council may get round to it eventually , it's not before some child has been knocked down or some elderly person falls over a hole in a pavement.

    The council have priorities and it's up to local people to make sure that what their needs are the council's priority.

    If that is shouting the loudest then so be it .

    But it takes a bit of effort on their part so fair dues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,422 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Activism is a positive in society and without it even our present laws and constitution would be same as when our nation was founded.

    The government of the day would be like the local councils to an extent ..certain priorities . It is up to people who feel passionate about something to create a stir so that government take notice and put it on their list .

    Generalizing about " activists " , and saying it's a life style is denigrating all the ordinary people who fought and protested and marched for the rights we have in this country now which is no mean achievement when you see the carnage in other places today .. Not on the left not on the right and not " activists " , just people .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,759 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Of course he was. He was the leader of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,821 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    That isn't true. The majority of Irish People were against Irish Water for what it was, a cash grab and certain privatisation mimicked on the absolute clusterfúck that is the water services in Wales and England.

    Everyone should be on their bloody knees thanking the people who protested against the privatisation of our water.

    Because if it hadn't happened that bill would have skyrocketed, just like the bin charges did.

    People learned, and they said not this time.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,821 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Activism has been responsible for much of the freedoms and equality we all enjoy today. Some people really need to learn their history and see what life was like before certain conditions were rolled back because of people who were willing to get up off their arses and become active. A five day working week, paid lunch breaks, paid holidays were all things that had to be fought for and they weren't given up easily. Jesus, even the right to vote had to be won and not just for women.

    But frankly, it's usually only a certain type that will want to try and equate activism with a cliched image that they have residing in their head. They think of activists and protesters and think layabout or some right on caricature.

    It's the usual adding of 2 and 2 and getting 3 scenario.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 503 ✭✭✭animalinside


    Exactly. A lifestyle of doing good and fighting for things you believe in and that other people would believe in as well if they had a clue - heaven forbid.

    Heaven forbid that someone would make being an activist a part of their personality as opposed to being involved in a useless, ultimately meaningless hobby or having opinions about shows and celebrities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,970 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Yes agreed, a crystal clear decision after a hard fought battle (against activists) who opposed them and fought them all the way to the doors of the Supreme Court.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,474 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    The coverage of Just Stop Oil in the UK was a great example. They blocked roads and caused disruption as a method of protest. The coverage was all about disruption and "what about if an ambulance needs to get through?" And "what if a woman is in labour trying to get to hospital?". They made it so much about these 2 points that they were able to limit the segment on the protest to these two questions over and over again, without ever going into depth on the point of the protest.

    Contrast that with the coverage of the farmers' protests a few months ago. There was no mention of the fact that they blocked the roads and they weren't asked about ambulances or women in labour getting to hospital at all. The focus was on the numbers and the policy being discussed. Nobody called them crusties.

    In other words, it was sanctioned by the media as a legitimate protest. So they were facilitated to discuss their actual point rather than being sidetracked with chat about how disruptive the protest was for people.

    It doesn't mean one protest was right and the other was wrong, but it's interesting to see how we're told to think about a protest based on how it's covered by the media

    Post edited by El_Duderino 09 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,759 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    The reason that the papers in England were so anti Just Stop Oil activists, is that the police took a softly softly approach, and let them block everybody on the roads for hours. And JSO showed every sign of trying to bring normal life to a complete standstill if given the chance. It was left to ordinary workers to try to clear the way to get to their own workplaces.

    They got off lightly, compared to the anti immigration activists who were rounded up and jailed pronto, after their actions in response to the Southport murders. The farmers protests were never as sustained as JSO. The papers would have reacted if they tied up traffic in London for days on end, abetted by police non action.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,596 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    The aftermath of the Southport murders in no way resembled a JSO protest.

    And multiple JSO protestors are in jail for their non violent protests anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,714 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,474 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    As Pointed out below, I think you're reaching with the comparison. And reaching again with the contrast in how JSO and farmers were covered in the media when they both blocked traffic in London.

    There wasn't even a mention of farmers blocking traffic and potentially preventing ambulances and women in labour getting to hospital. It was the first and main thing JSO were asked about in interviews. It didn't take the media ages to start asking JSO about traffic, it was their main question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,714 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    That's only because civil disobedience didn't go far enough. The majority of people in Britain, for example, opposed the Iraq war, but not enough that they were prepared to wreck the place in order to prevent it from happening.



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