Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Can't speak for the Versatile, but pretty sure his point is that this isn't kneecapping Leinster, and any suggestion of as much is wide of the mark.

Exactly. So going back to the OP that the Versatile was replying, how is this "a definite hit to Leinster"? It's not.

Utter nonsense. How do you describe a 500k reduction in budget, on top of a 1.5m reduction recently announced?

If anything I was being conservative in my language by using the term 'hit'.

To be clear; it's a hit that I don't think will materially impact Leinster results-wise.

Much like this season. The introduction of the "up to 30%" hasn't materially impacted them.

Leinster aren't "paying a tax on the current model". It's a change to the model.

None of which changes my substantive point; I don't think it will be a material hit, which is all that really matters.

Much like they clearly haven't been hit this season with the 30%.

So you don't think it will materially hit Leinster either? Great. Then where's the problem.

With respect, at this time last year prior to the 30% change, I suggested the Central Contract distribution was problematic and a changed was needed. I was met with the following from you:

So you're just using that most annoying politician tactic:

Stoke up flames of resentment about a huge problem that you claim to exist - Huge inequity between the provinces where they'll never ever be able to catch Leinster unless something is done by the IRFU

Say you favour a magical solution, where the huge problem is solved but it involves no one taking any significant pain - the playing field needs to leveled but not in a way that drags back Leinster

Refuse to propose your own magical solution - Claim in your post other solutions are needed but have only giving us the gem of sharing Barrett's 6 month salary across 3 provinces

Get annoyed when those in power do not have the magical solution that resolves the issue - we haven't gotten to this part yet but I presume we'll see it post the CC review process

I'm just glad the IRFU weren't as fantastical and fatalistic towards something that, they seem to have agreed with me, was a problem.

And, much like I suggested last season, it hasn't appeared to materially impact Leinster.

I'm done with this, it's clear you have no interest in a good-faith discussion on the substantive topic.

That's a masterclass in selective reading if I've ever seen one.

You also specifically refer to Humphreys "talking out of his arse" when he says he wants to keep Leinster where they are. Considering Humphreys had to sign off on today's signing, that doesn't really line up does it?

The only annoyance I have today was from the amount of posters making weird comments about other provinces fans and their imaginary outrage at the signing. It's altogether very strange and screams of insecurity.

You’re wasting your time, theVersatile; I’ve clarified my position and it’s pretty clear the guy has no interest in a good-faith discussion.

Nucifora didn't leave a mess

I don't see that as being a fair reflection on Nucifora from a Munster production perspective anyway. He is really painted as the bad guy and left holding the bag for the incompetence of the guys that went before him (though handsomely paid so I dont feel bad for him).

The seeds of Munster's production falling off a cliff were planted well, well before he took the job. The last batch of high quality Munster players (POM, Murray, Zebo, Earls) where all Irish capped, Irish regulars, or even Lions tourists by the time Nucifora took his job.

Munster's barren period of production can be traced back to terrible mismanagement during the glory years. Nothing Nucifora or anyone could do to click their fingers and recapture that wasted period and start a conveyor belt of players. He was given a written off car to fix when it came to Munster, it was always going to take time.

If you look at the young non-Irish capped Munster players now versus when Nucifora took the job, they are in a far better state now. I dont think anyone here knows what role he played in getting them to that position versus Munster getting things right themselves but it should be acknowledged.

People seem bitter he didn't turn water into wine in an instant or blow up the whole Irish system in the hopes of helping their province, despite Ireland going through its greatest ever period.

Munster were in that dominant position in the noughties

This often gets mentioned on here but it’s just not accurate; Munster were never in as dominant a position as Leinster are now.

That’s pretty clear by the make up of the 23, and the distribution of Central Contracts compared to then.

A 10-3 split of Leinster vs the Rest was clearly not a viable or tenable position; I got a huge amount of blowback last year for suggesting as much, but I’m glad the IRFU seem to have agreed with me.

This isn’t true, Podge; the disagreements came up because I suggested a change was required at all. And certainly I never suggested “Give more central contracts to other provinces”.

(And fwiw I'd suggest "not particularly ideal" is a million miles from the "Stoke up flames of resentment about a huge problem that you claim to exist / magical solution". So it's perfectly clear not everyone was in the "not particularly ideal" camp).

Even if it does take years to have an impact, it was still the right thing to do. The status-quo just wasn't tenable.

But they were in the dominant position. I never said they were as dominant. Pretty much 1-10 in ireland teams were Munster players on CC (albeit there was more CC back then) and there was also a few more Munster players on the bench in 22 man squads. The rest of the 22 man squad was split between Leinster, Ulster and Geordan Murphy/Tommy Bowe.

The single biggest reasons for Leinster being so dominant in the last 5 years in national 23s are...

1. LEINSTER got their act together and decisions made 20 years ago are bearing fruit since 2016 onwards.
2. Munster didn't. Once the golden generation retired they had a handful of players over that 15 years or so who went onto international squads as regulars (Earls Murray, POM). There was no plan for after that and in the intervening years they signed a lot of players to cover for this. It's taken Leinster basic 3 generations to get from 2006 to now. Munster are probably in the first generation now playing catch. That's a monumental gap