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Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Some further reports on this incident:

    Following the strike, British Foreign Secretary David Lammy said "Israel's attacks on medical facilities have comprehensively degraded access to healthcare in Gaza... These deplorable attacks must end. Diplomacy, not more bloodshed, is how we will achieve a lasting peace."

    The Anglican Diocese of Jerusalem said it was "appalled" by the strike on the hospital, noting it was the fifth time since the war began that the hospital had been targeted. The Anglican Diocese of Jerusalem owns and operates the Al-Ahli Hospital, Gaza's only Christian hospital.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    This snippet is interesting. Why they kept al-Nsasrah but released Abed is mysterious.

    The Palestinian Red Crescent said it had been told by the International Confederation of the Red Cross that paramedic Asaad al-Nsasrah, missing since the killing of 15 aid workers in Rafah, is being held in detention in Israel, and called on the international community to pressure Israel to release Nsasrah. The IDF has yet to respond to Haaretz's request for a response.

    Munther Abed, a Red Crescent volunteer who survived the IDF attack on the aid workers' convoy, told The Guardian he saw Nsasrah alive and detained by IDF soldiers, adding that he did not know what then happened to the paramedic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Per the Israeli reservists writing letters and petitions to cease the war, writers and poets are pressuring the Govt. They recognise clearly that the World currently sees Israel as "uncivilised" as a result of the Government's campaign.

    Hundreds of Israeli writers, poets, and literary figures signed a petition calling for the immediate end of the war in Gaza, the return of the 59 hostages, and the formulation of a clear plan for the future of Gaza and its residents. The signatories attribute the continuation of the war to Netanyahu's political motives and accuse him of undermining "the most basic values of Israel as a civilized society, a democratic society, and also the values of the Declaration of Independence."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I don't have access to the full article. But its not required. The first paragraph really says it all:

    Nasser Hospital's emergency room in the southern Gaza Strip has a special area where children are allowed to die quietly in the presence of their families. Known as the "dead children's area," it's also for children whose rescue would require resources beyond the hospital's means.

    That sentence on its own is heart-breaking and clear proof that what Israel is doing is depraved and abhorrent.

    Shame on anyone who attempts to justify what Israel is doing to kids.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭political analyst


    The IDF said that the soldier who made that claim made a mistake.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    He made a "mistake" stating that the lights were off? A soldier? Who get their eyes tested regularly? Really? Made a mistake? Not buying it. The IDF lied - plain and simple.

    But the naivety of your post that is staggering to be honest. "IDF soldier made a mistake". Ah, OK, shame about the 15 medics murdered then buried in the sand, with their vehicles, and no-one allowed near them for a week. But sure, the IDF made a mistake.

    Staggering naivety. Or pure justification for War Crimes. I'm really not sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,329 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    If you have seen the footage, you know it was impossible to make that mistake. Gaza is pitch black and all the ambulances were lights/sirens on. You are wilfully deluded and your analysis skills are horrendous.

    Was burying the ambulances a mistake too?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Again I'll ask... Why on earth are you trying to defend this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,975 ✭✭✭Suckler


    In that case, I have some magic beans I'm sure you'll buy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,456 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Yeah, they just made the same mistake 14 times. In the same place. Very likely.

    About the "There are no innocents in Gaza" issue, there's a simple explanation - what the general said was a figure of speech.

    Yep. All the other things he additionally said and did we can safely ignore as jaysus forbid we view the remark in context.



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,011 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    International law doesn't prohibit the targeting of terrorists when they use those places for military purposes.

    Hold on there - Article 48 of the Geneva convention says "the military must discriminate between civilians and combatants at all times. "

    Article 57 says "

    1. In the conduct of military operations, constant care shall be taken to spare the civilian population, civilians and civilian objects."

    It also says :

    (a) those who plan or decide upon an attack shall:
      (i) do everything feasible to verify that the objectives to be attacked are neither civilians nor civilian objects and are not subject to special protection but are military objectives within the meaning of paragraph 2 of Article 52 and that it is not prohibited by the provisions of this Protocol to attack them;
      (ii) take all feasible precautions in the choice of means and methods of attack with a view to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects;
      (iii) refrain from deciding to launch any attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated;

    (b) an attack shall be cancelled or suspended if it becomes apparent that the objective is not a military one or is subject to special protection or that the attack may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated;

    The list could go on - targeting hospitals, safe zones, medical transports , cutting off humanitarian aid.

    Israel have broken every one of these conventions. Every single one of them.

    Its a genocide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭political analyst


    If Israel was committing genocide then the war would've been over within days of 7 October 2023. You're taking the situation out of context.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,011 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Even if the Hamas-run health ministry's death toll is true, it's still a very small percentage of the Gaza Strip's population as of 7 October 2023 and includes terrorists.

    What point are you trying to get across with that statement? Its ok because theres a few of them left??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭political analyst


    If there was "a few of them left" then the death toll wouldn't be a small percentage of the population.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,011 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Ok so as you are obviously an IDF and Israeli supporter maybe you`ll be straight and answer the question Ive asked multiple users who are also Israeli supporters who cant answer the question straight - why do you and other Israeli supporters not consider it a genocide? Its a very straight forward question.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,011 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Perhaps, in the heat of the moment, the soldier forgot that he had seen sirens. The IDF investigation's preliminary finding is that the soldiers responded to a perceived threat.

    Israel didn't start this war - and I'm referring to the current war, not the Israel-Palestine conflict in general.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭political analyst


    I was disputing your genocide claim. Stop being disingenuous!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Because if it was a genocide then the Allied bombing of Nazi Germany would've been a genocide. Before you mention the Genocide Convention, I must remind you that the text of a convention is not proof of the crime that the convention is about.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,011 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    I didnt ask for examples - I asked why you as an Israeli supporter doesnt consider it genocide?

    We can all point out examples for and against the argument - Im looking for a personal opinion.

    In my opinion it is nothing to do with the Genocide convention.And these are my reasons for considering it genocide.

    1. Indiscriminate bombing of civilians - causing massive loss of life of these civilians , not to mention horrific injuries inflicted on the survivors.
    2. Forced displacement of those civilians to "safe areas" and then bombing those areas - ghettos in WW2 anyone?
    3. Attacking maternity hospitals - stop the race from increasing.
    4. Trying to wipe out the population so they can take the land for themselves.
    5. The UN, Human rights watch, Amnesty International have all said its genocide.
    6. Starving the population into submission.
    7. Not allowing in humanitarian aid.
    8. Banning free press reporting from inside Gaza.
    9. Expulsion of NGOs that were there to distribute aid etc.

    Theres probably more but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck - Its a duck.



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,011 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Im not being disingenuous - I asked a question and you deflected from it as usual from Israeli supporters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,456 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Here's a "small percentage" for you.

    "Beyond the mass death, international agencies suggest that at least 110,000 people in Gaza have been injured, including at least 25,000 children. And Unicef estimates that between 3,000 and 4,000 children in Gaza have had one or more limbs amputated. That small tract of earth is now home to more child amputees per inhabitant than anywhere else in the world."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/mar/27/gaza-palestine-children-injuries?CMP=share_btn_url&fbclid=IwY2xjawJpH41leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHpLk2f_hxKbEPpUMbW1e8CsXo27AsIs7YNGMrLYNxBUDnRiBLRUzyNb9Hll8_aem_l-B0lwdI7vaW-LQIMRz_hg



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,975 ✭✭✭Suckler




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,975 ✭✭✭Suckler


    Completely inaccurate comparison.

    I wish people would stop trying to constantly compare the situation in Gaza to WW2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,074 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    You will notice he did not mention the Nazi German bombing of London.

    This is nor comparable to World War 2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,329 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    And that single post proves beyond all doubt that you are completely and utterly biased and cannot tell right from wrong in this conflict. Maybe have a think about what you are saying.

    "In the heat of the moment"....they ambushed and murdered every single one of the 15 healthcare workers and buried them and their ambulances. Seriously you should be ashamed of your mealy-mouthed excuses. Credibility, zero.

    Post edited by Cluedo Monopoly on

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Whatever about supporting Israel in this conflict - why try to defend what is clearly an execution of over a dozen paramedics and a botched coverup?

    Is it really your position that the IDF didn't see ambulances with full lights on in pitch black of night, shot them all (without recieving return fire) because they thought they were a threat, Hamas came back after the case and bound some of the corpses hands etc. and then Hamas buried their bodies and ambulances? Did Hamas also make the IDF lie about it over and over? Did Hamas make them miss that poor lads mobile phone?

    Are you seriously saying it hasn't nudged you in some way to revisit some of the other flimsy reasonings for other massacres that have been commited by the IDF in this war? Because it would have done for alot of people, and you are the self proclaimed political analyst afterall.

    Is it also really your position that the complete destruction of every building in a city of 2 million people, and the killing of 50 odd thousand mostly women and children was because Hamas were hiding behind them? Can they disappear and materialize at will? It also doesn't explain the brutality going on in the West bank.

    I just cannot understand the motivation to defend this wanton death and destruction against all logic and common sense. To my mind, that is just pure extremism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,694 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Stop being disingenuous!

    Jesus…if ever there was glasshouse moment.

    :/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭taratee


    Rafah is encircled, cutting it off from Khan Younis, and the IDF is preparing to evacuate the Gazan city. I doubt this will be reported in the West, but it's a key development in the war.

    Additionally, parts of the Al-Ahli hospital - known to be a Hamas base in Gaza - were destroyed in an Israeli airstrike on Saturday. It was the only hospital still fully functioning in Gaza City. Hamas's ongoing use of civilian infrastructure like hospitals is deeply troubling but nothing new. There were no reports of casualties, thankfully, which may explain the minimal coverage in the mainstream media over here.

    Sorry to burst your bubble but all bar sixty of those who signed it are long-retired. The vast majority of the remaining signatories hold headquarters roles and are not trained fighters. Moreover, they are simply reinforcing the point that the return of the hostages should be the government’s top priority, a view that the majority of people in Israel and those of us who stand with Israel agree with. The war can continue, if needs be, once the hostages are returned.

    Am Yisrael Chai - Bring them home.



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